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Old 10th May 2004, 02:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by carlosfm


Just don't use the LM833, or the whole thing will sound as a kitchen radio.

Quote:
Originally posted by carlmart



Get away from the 833! At least use NE5532s, if you can't get any better. But there are many modern chips now that upgrade it. They are trickier to implement but sound better.


Carlos


I really would not be scared of using the LM833 in the design.

Numerous people use them in the ESP designs and swear buy them and some are using it exclusively. For example, nobody on his forum claims they can tell any difference between an LM833 implemented active crossover and an NE5532 or OPA2134 crossover and there are 7 op amps on the 24dB/octave crossover. I certainly am not able to tell any difference between one I implemented with LM833 and polyester caps and one I implemented with OPA2134 polypropylene caps.

Others report being happy using the NE5532. My point is that in several discussions of op amps on the ESP forums (Rod's site) the NE5532, LM833 and OPA2134 all come up with happy users. No one reports any issues with the sound through any of them.

One thing to note though is that the LM833 is a higher bandwidth device and in some designs such as the crossover, it needs some small caps added at a few points to defeat oscillation. That has not come up on the preamp I don't think but is something to look out for.

I have OPA2134 in my Project 88 board and my P06 phone preamp as I built them before trying the LM833. They sound great. I probably will keep using the OPA2134 when the number needed is small as I figure why not although it may be wasting several dollars.

I will probably keep using LM833 when the number is higher. Note the OPA2134 is available for sale on the ESP site.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:16 PM   #12
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Something strange is happening here.
No difference?
Even the NE5532 is much better than the LM833!
Anyway, I junk both of them.
Seriously, I'm not really surprized that some people can't find a big difference for the OPA2134.
Designs like the Chu-Moy headamp that you can see on the HeadWize forum have all the instructions to use an OPA in a very wrong way.
The OPAs (or any modern / fast op-amp) like good bypassing.
Most os the times it's not the case.
I'm sorry, but if your pre is the one I think, the same goes for that.

Don't ask me how to properly bypass.
Use the search on this forum, I've said it plenty of times.


Note: some people don't even have decent systems to take reliable conclusions.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:24 PM   #13
meo85 is offline meo85  Italy
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uhm, is the schematic something like this http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...110#post197110 ??
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:38 PM   #14
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Default GainClone Preamp

You might consider the Pass Labs DIY "Bride of Zen" preamp from the other forum.

Is sounds fantastic and is extremely simple to build. http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/brideofzen.pdf The circuit has only one mosfet device.

Good Luck,

-David
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Old 10th May 2004, 05:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by carlosfm
Note: some people don't even have decent systems to take reliable conclusions.

Oh I forgot, that's it, my system is so sucky that I can't hear that it sounds like a kitchen radio.


We could probably go on for 20 posts with you describing perceived differences and saying others systems are so lacking or listeners so tin eared that they cannot hear the difference.

I could go on for 20 posts describing how my system is well above decent, about LM833 vs. OPA2134 not being an area to particularly worry about versus other areas of the system, and demanding blind A/B testing with sufficient number of individuals and all parameters including amplitude exactly matched and measured.

In the end you would claim vast differences and that even considering LM833 is a bankrupt inadequate implementation.

In the end I would claim there are a lot of other places to put your money where it will be noticable, and that me085 will be very happy with a LM833 based preamp.

But really now, lets not leave the impression that implementing with LM833 will "sound like a kitchen radio".

All that being said, I will point out what I said before, which is for my preamp where only a couple of opamps are needed I am using OPA2134 and may keep making that choice cause I have some on hand.

Note that there are those who consider the OPA2134 inadequate and way too low-end to be considered vs. more premium op amps. And so the cycle goes.....
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Old 10th May 2004, 09:02 PM   #16
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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The best advice that I have seen on opamps so far is to use a socket and then try different ones for yourself!

I wonder if we had a 'boot sale' of all the discarded opamps people have, how many we would actually have on offer!
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Old 11th May 2004, 08:54 AM   #17
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moving_electron, don't take it personal.
How can I express myself?
Ok, I'll put it in other words: the LM833 is crap.

The source is the most important component in a system.
Next to it is the preamp.
Treat it well, or it will screw the sound of your system.
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Old 11th May 2004, 09:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nuuk

I wonder if we had a 'boot sale' of all the discarded opamps people have, how many we would actually have on offer!
My god, Nuuk, what an idea!
I mean, intead of junking these things we could sell them!

Guys, I have some BA4558s, 4560s, NE5532, OP176, LM833, NJM2114...
I sell them for the best offer above 100 Euros.

I need to buy some OPAs...
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Old 11th May 2004, 09:05 AM   #19
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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Carlos, you should have started a thread telling everybody how wondeful those opamps sounded. THEN you may have got your 100 euros
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Old 11th May 2004, 09:43 AM   #20
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You keep giving me ideas, Nuuk.

Instead of selling, I could exchange these beautiful chips with some OPA627/37, OPA2132, OPA2604, LM6171/2...
Some people don't like them.
We can make a deal.

Oh, I can exchange my beautiful Ford Fiesta too.
Mercedes, BMW, anyone?
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