I don't want to step on any toes here but if people would be interested in a complete kit product I'd be more than happy to put something together.
The complete kit project offered Brian is great but I have a feeling that at some point shuffling money & parts around is going to get old (especially once your married Brian
I have a relationship with a fabrication company that is doing other chassis work for me. I'd envision a small simple chassis with all CNC machine work done for all inputs/outputs etc.... It would still be attractive, not a work of art like many of the better ones I've seen here but something that is tasteful and attractive.
Overall the parts cost in quantity would be somewhere around $100-$120 depending on parts chosen. I'd have to sell it for around $150-$185 in order to feed the kids but that is still a good bit better than the average DIYer can do when assembling a kit in small volume. It also alleviates the need to figure out how to put together an attractive & well-designed box for the project. I'd also be willing to donate a portion of the proceeds to diyaudio.com for the sake of running the forum.
I'd say it makes the most sense for the general kit to source good quality parts but not the BGs & Caddocks. I'd source Panasonic FCs & the Vishay/Dale metal films which are good parts but cost competitive. People who want to upgrade can do so by replacing them with their choice of tweako parts. I'd use Cardas parts for inputs & outputs simply because I already stock them.
Anyway... like I said. I don't want to step on any toes. I know Peter & Ron are selling things for GC builders. If this is somehow offense to anyone I apologize in advance. I just thought I'd drop the suggestion since it is a project I'd love to do and I think it would be a good stepping-stone for beginning DIYers to get their feet into the waters.
Kevin Haskins
www.diycable.com
The complete kit project offered Brian is great but I have a feeling that at some point shuffling money & parts around is going to get old (especially once your married Brian
I have a relationship with a fabrication company that is doing other chassis work for me. I'd envision a small simple chassis with all CNC machine work done for all inputs/outputs etc.... It would still be attractive, not a work of art like many of the better ones I've seen here but something that is tasteful and attractive.
Overall the parts cost in quantity would be somewhere around $100-$120 depending on parts chosen. I'd have to sell it for around $150-$185 in order to feed the kids but that is still a good bit better than the average DIYer can do when assembling a kit in small volume. It also alleviates the need to figure out how to put together an attractive & well-designed box for the project. I'd also be willing to donate a portion of the proceeds to diyaudio.com for the sake of running the forum.
I'd say it makes the most sense for the general kit to source good quality parts but not the BGs & Caddocks. I'd source Panasonic FCs & the Vishay/Dale metal films which are good parts but cost competitive. People who want to upgrade can do so by replacing them with their choice of tweako parts. I'd use Cardas parts for inputs & outputs simply because I already stock them.
Anyway... like I said. I don't want to step on any toes. I know Peter & Ron are selling things for GC builders. If this is somehow offense to anyone I apologize in advance. I just thought I'd drop the suggestion since it is a project I'd love to do and I think it would be a good stepping-stone for beginning DIYers to get their feet into the waters.
Kevin Haskins
www.diycable.com
Here are a couple pictures from our larger chassis. The front and rear panels are flat aluminum plate. This way we use the same clam-shell for different configurations by changing front/rear panels. A GC size enclosure measuring about 14" wide by 10.5" deep and 3.5" tall would be a nice general size box for a number of configurations.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think a kit like this would sell- especially on your website.
As you said- it's strength would be that everything would be included- case, knobs, feet, pot, input and output terminals.
Good instructions would seal the deal.
Punching or drilling all those holes is no fun!
It would be conveniant to recommend to friends that express interest in DIY.
Maybe a thick front plate option.
Personally, I will probably have enough gainclones for a while after this buy- unless I go home theater- wait there's an idea-
a 5 channel version in a large case. With modular gainclone boards that you could buy as you need them. Maybe it comes with just 2 channels initially.
As you said- it's strength would be that everything would be included- case, knobs, feet, pot, input and output terminals.
Good instructions would seal the deal.
Punching or drilling all those holes is no fun!
It would be conveniant to recommend to friends that express interest in DIY.
Maybe a thick front plate option.
Personally, I will probably have enough gainclones for a while after this buy- unless I go home theater- wait there's an idea-
a 5 channel version in a large case. With modular gainclone boards that you could buy as you need them. Maybe it comes with just 2 channels initially.
I would definitely be interested in a full kit like this...I know some will say that it defeats the theory of "DIY", but it would just be like training wheels for me. I have a good background with electronics and EE, but haven't actually built something before. Having a kit that I could put together to get my feet wet would allow me to get a hands-on understanding of what is required to build an amp...and after that, I could take control of individual parts going into the project.
If you do offer a kit, definitely count me in for one.
If you do offer a kit, definitely count me in for one.
Yes.... we would make the chassis available as a stand alone product. One of the ideas for the chassis is that it could be used for any number of products. If you look at the larger version above you will notice that the front & rear panels are flat and attach with fastners. We did this so that we could sell the clam-shell enclosure and people who wanted an enclosure for other products could use the following service.
http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/
We have a templete for the front & rear panels. You download their software and then you can completely customize your own chassis design. We of course provide dimensions & parts for our chassis & the parts that I sell (Cardas post, RCAs & input IECs). In a manner of minutes you can customize your own front a rear panel and send off the order for a custom CNC cut front & rear panel. You can even engrave your name, & written information on the front & rear panels. Anodizing and finish options are available. Cost for a complete CNC cut custom chassis should be under $200.
The bottom of the chassis has a grid for various PCB layouts. We poked some holes in the larger chassis specifically for our digital amplifier but there is also a general grid so that you could design your PCB mounting locations around the layout. There is a hole cut already in the front corner for the standard toroid power transformer mounting position.
The smalller GC chassis would follow the same guidelines except the box would be smaller.
http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/
We have a templete for the front & rear panels. You download their software and then you can completely customize your own chassis design. We of course provide dimensions & parts for our chassis & the parts that I sell (Cardas post, RCAs & input IECs). In a manner of minutes you can customize your own front a rear panel and send off the order for a custom CNC cut front & rear panel. You can even engrave your name, & written information on the front & rear panels. Anodizing and finish options are available. Cost for a complete CNC cut custom chassis should be under $200.
The bottom of the chassis has a grid for various PCB layouts. We poked some holes in the larger chassis specifically for our digital amplifier but there is also a general grid so that you could design your PCB mounting locations around the layout. There is a hole cut already in the front corner for the standard toroid power transformer mounting position.
The smalller GC chassis would follow the same guidelines except the box would be smaller.
The $200 would be a ball-park figure for the custom chassis. Since we don't have any affiliation with FrontPanelExpress what they charge would be determined by them & you. The free software you can download from their site will quote you an exact price as you make changes.
If we were to develop a kit, we could standardize on one front/back panel design and the price would be much lower. My cost on the front/rear panel for the larger enclosure is $10 each in 50 peice quantities. I've custom ordered a couple from Front Panel and the price was around $40 each for a one unit custom design. Hense the difference in price is due to the cost of using the standard design vs. a custom one.
Does that make sense?
If we were to develop a kit, we could standardize on one front/back panel design and the price would be much lower. My cost on the front/rear panel for the larger enclosure is $10 each in 50 peice quantities. I've custom ordered a couple from Front Panel and the price was around $40 each for a one unit custom design. Hense the difference in price is due to the cost of using the standard design vs. a custom one.
Does that make sense?
I think you should stick with cardas RCA's and Binding Posts I also think Schuter make's the best stanard IEC power inlets 6100 series.I would mount the amp boards as far to the back of the cabinet and as close as possible to the input /output connections and also consider useing two transformers mounted close to the front panel.In this config. may be harder to get the conrols optimized on front panel.This would be the way as a starting point that I would configure the layout
Kevin,
Couple of questions for you. Do you intend to offer different grades of components for the kits? When do you anticipate being able to offer the kit to the public? Finally, what sort of supplemental building information will be sent with the kit. I'm not looking to have my hand held with instructions mainly just curious. Thanks in advance.
Kerry Vanhorn
Couple of questions for you. Do you intend to offer different grades of components for the kits? When do you anticipate being able to offer the kit to the public? Finally, what sort of supplemental building information will be sent with the kit. I'm not looking to have my hand held with instructions mainly just curious. Thanks in advance.
Kerry Vanhorn
Kerry,
It is really early to give any kind of details. I don't even have the drawing done for the chassis let alone a quote for pricing & delivery time. Our larger chassis was on the drawing board for 6 months and in production now (4-5 weeks). The rest of the parts should be simple to source. The only question would be whether to use an exhisting PCB or develop our own. I wouldn't have any problem making it accept the monting holes for the current PCBs that Brian is having made. No sense reinventing the wheel as I think that Peter & Brian have done good work on those boards.
There might be a few options but not many. In order to buy components in quantity you have to settle on a few choices. Over time the options might expand depending upon demand and which parts are worth upgrading. I'd have options for mounting the DACT attenuators & selector switch & various Cardas parts upgrades out of the gate. I'd use the economy Cardas parts for the basic model. I think we could aim for a complete 2 channel kit price that would fall in that $150-$185 range in the basic version.
The DACT parts could easily double that price so I think it makes sense to have less expensive choices for volume control & switching. I'm have a prototype remote volume control that uses the motorized Alps pots and that could be a nice solution for the integrated. The basic volume control could be a Alps which is more affordable. I'm looking at the Greyhill selectors as a less expensive alternative to the DACT units. Oveall there should be enough choices for people to aim for whatever price point their heart desires. We even have a remote available for the DACT attenuators which John at Bent Audio developed. These would push the price WAY up there... but that would be the builder's choice.
It is really early to give any kind of details. I don't even have the drawing done for the chassis let alone a quote for pricing & delivery time. Our larger chassis was on the drawing board for 6 months and in production now (4-5 weeks). The rest of the parts should be simple to source. The only question would be whether to use an exhisting PCB or develop our own. I wouldn't have any problem making it accept the monting holes for the current PCBs that Brian is having made. No sense reinventing the wheel as I think that Peter & Brian have done good work on those boards.
There might be a few options but not many. In order to buy components in quantity you have to settle on a few choices. Over time the options might expand depending upon demand and which parts are worth upgrading. I'd have options for mounting the DACT attenuators & selector switch & various Cardas parts upgrades out of the gate. I'd use the economy Cardas parts for the basic model. I think we could aim for a complete 2 channel kit price that would fall in that $150-$185 range in the basic version.
The DACT parts could easily double that price so I think it makes sense to have less expensive choices for volume control & switching. I'm have a prototype remote volume control that uses the motorized Alps pots and that could be a nice solution for the integrated. The basic volume control could be a Alps which is more affordable. I'm looking at the Greyhill selectors as a less expensive alternative to the DACT units. Oveall there should be enough choices for people to aim for whatever price point their heart desires. We even have a remote available for the DACT attenuators which John at Bent Audio developed. These would push the price WAY up there... but that would be the builder's choice.
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