The many parallel-TDA7293 ACE-BASS amp project

While I sort out what to do, here are some musings on the ACE-BASS circuit...

Looking at Stahl's JAES paper from 1981 it's clear that he uses some feedback from the sense resistor to both create the amplifier's negative output resistance and to simulate the output network in the input network (it's not exactly clear to on how this last one works).

Keeping that in mind, there is also the work from Werner in the late 1950's. Werner used a negative output impedance amplifier to extend and smooth the bass response and lower distortion. Werner explicitly states that a negative impedance is superior to a negative resistance because the latter will cause a high-Q resonance to form with the voice coil inductance in the 500-1kHz range, which is exactly one of the things that Stahl's circuit suffers from.

So, why not combine these two concepts? Stahl makes very clear that the negative output impedance amplifier portion of his circuit is separate from the bandpass filter part, so in theory this should be do-able. By using a negative impedance a la Werner the resonance problem can be reduced or eliminated alltogether, and Werner mentions that his circuit was very stable, which can't be said about Stahl's circuit if Zu ~ Re.
 
I re-read Stahl's paper and it dawned on me that it might be even better to try and implement the ACE-BASS circuit using DSP instead of with analog circuitry. It's more or less spelled out how to do this by Stahl, and I recall hearing of such an implementation before I think. I should also be able to implement the LEMF circuit with DSP as well. Using DSP should make the system easier to tweak during development.

That leaves the amplifier. Maybe I will turn my attention back to that. I am sure that I will learn some things in the process, since designing layouts for amplifiers is not something I have done before. I guess I am familiar with the general principles at least.

Any progress ?

Cheers ,

Rens
 
ACE Bass

You have everything you need online.
The difficulty is the implementation you have to decide
if you want to make an ACE Bass to add to an existing amplifier
or make a single package.
I tried the first route and it worked in part.
I underestimated the 20hz high pass filter (which I didn't add) and
I regret it.
Still another aspect, for me, unresolved is the bass alignment
B6 type reflex.

let's hear, I'm continuing on the journey.
 
Last edited:
ACE2

While I sort out what to do, here are some musings on the ACE-BASS circuit...

Looking at Stahl's JAES paper from 1981 it's clear that he uses some feedback from the sense resistor to both create the amplifier's negative output resistance and to simulate the output network in the input network (it's not exactly clear to on how this last one works).

Keeping that in mind, there is also the work from Werner in the late 1950's. Werner used a negative output impedance amplifier to extend and smooth the bass response and lower distortion. Werner explicitly states that a negative impedance is superior to a negative resistance because the latter will cause a high-Q resonance to form with the voice coil inductance in the 500-1kHz range, which is exactly one of the things that Stahl's circuit suffers from.


So, why not combine these two concepts? Stahl makes very clear that the negative output impedance amplifier portion of his circuit is separate from the bandpass filter part, so in theory this should be do-able. By using a negative impedance a la Werner the resonance problem can be reduced or eliminated alltogether, and Werner mentions that his circuit was very stable, which can't be said about Stahl's circuit if Zu ~ Re.

I have found this: US4797933A - Bass amplifier with high frequency response
- Google Patents

Ace amp without Ace problems.
 
Along with the change to MFB for the HP filter, I have also added a DC servo. Since the LEMF circuit uses an integrator I want to make sure that the amp has a low DC offset. Stahl shows a very large (>100uF) cap on the input to the amplifier in one of the versions of his circuit, but the DC servo should perform better than a large bipolar cap.

With the above changes, the circuit is looking something like this. Keep in mind that both ACE-BASS and LEMF are combined in what is shown, and as before some sections or components of the circuit must be omitted or bypassed to give one or the other.

The way the circuit is laid out makes for easy use of dual op-amp ICs, and I have indicated this on the diagram. When a portion of the circuit is omitted, both amps in that dual op-amp package can be omitted, for instance U3A and U3B, or U4A and U4B.

Can you tell me what the 2-pole DC servo is for?
 
I re-read Stahl's paper and it dawned on me that it might be even better to try and implement the ACE-BASS circuit using DSP instead of with analog circuitry. It's more or less spelled out how to do this by Stahl, and I recall hearing of such an implementation before I think. I should also be able to implement the LEMF circuit with DSP as well. Using DSP should make the system easier to tweak during development.

That leaves the amplifier. Maybe I will turn my attention back to that. I am sure that I will learn some things in the process, since designing layouts for amplifiers is not something I have done before. I guess I am familiar with the general principles at least.
Happy Christmas.
I'd be interested in trying something like this.
This could probably extend the
response over 200Hz of ACE Bass.
I don't know how this can be done but I would
like to get an idea of the implementation.
I'm working on a project and I'd like, even if I pay,
to have a standalone DSP ACEBass scheme, i.e. with the
possibility of connecting it to an external amplifier.
Great stuff.
 
Baldin beat me to the answer. It's probably not a great idea to try and use DSP unless you really know what you are doing. You are likely to create a feedback loop at some frequency due to the delay within the DSP (delay is a phase shift). I know that is HAS been done before, however, so maybe you can find someone who will work on such a project for you?