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Old 25th February 2014, 03:47 AM   #71
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joerytech View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you try to replicate the audio input audio signal as best as possible and in theory that is the best you can do being the one on the other side of the audio replication circle (listener).

I can see from the work you have put into that its very complicated to do so.

What I mean with ""simple" is that even you could accomplish that, it doesn't mean you make the ideal system for replicating the sound as it was intended to be.

Don't get me wrong, People like you are very much needed to get the sound experience as it was intended.

I don't have much experience with amp building but in the past I have been busy with speaker design for a couple of years and found out that speakers that came close to theoretical best performance really did not sound well.
Not only me but many have scratched there head a lots figuring out why this happened and I think its still not really clear why this is the case.

If there would be a single way how to reproduce the sound as it was intended by the mixer/producer of the music there would be only one amplifier and one speaker system on the market now.
I concur, completely, I think.

With currently-available recordings, we can never even really know how to "correctly" reproduce what was recorded, with perfect accuracy, and also would not be able to know that we had, if we did.

It seems that the best we can possibly do is to try to reproduce the recorded material from our source media, as accurately as possible.

But, of course, when we talk only about the amplifier, we are not including the entire reproduction system. The feedback is from before the speakers.

But that is more practical, I guess, than taking feedback from our brain's audio perceptions, or even just from microphones that are placed at or in our ears, although I have thought about doing that.

On the other hand, that producer/mixer person was recording from somewhere before his power amplifier, and not from microphones at his ears. So maybe it would not be a theoretically correct approach to getting the best reproduction accuracy, after all. But maybe it would at least help correct for the room we were in. I don't know. I am pretty sure that it has been tried, or at least theoretically analyzed. But I can't remember seeing any details about it.

There are threads right here on diyaudio about taking feedback from speaker cone motion (with laser or radar-like reflective sensors), but I think that most of those were only for bass. I wonder if anyone has tried it with microphones. But from what I know about field theory, there would probably be severe problems due to the exact microphone placement, because of the constructive and destructive interference patterns that are so variable, which is why placing the feedback mics at a listener's ears seemed like it might be a good idea. But then, of course, it would almost certainly only work well when doing that for one listener.

Anyway, it can be as complicated as we want it to be. But there is no perfect solution. So we just try to do the best that we can do, with whatever time and money constraints we have.

I am happy-enough with either my Magnepan planar magnetic speakers or my Vandersteen 2Ce speakers (both of which I purchased used, for very reasonable prices), with almost any good power amplifier. I think that they are both extremely accurate, as are my power amplifiers (which are either hand-made or older used ones like Adcom 545 II or 585). The sound is exquisite, with a very detailed and realistic audio image ("soundstage"). But, for all I know, the hair-raising sound quality might be mostly because of my room layout and speaker positions. I do know that if I do not position the speakers (and myself) EXACTLY right, some of the best quality gets lost.
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Old 25th February 2014, 10:20 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Joerytech View Post
ok, My neighbor has a really expensive hifi system and today he agreed to try my amp with his 15000 euro CD player and even more expensive speakers....

lets see......

I will keep you informed.....
I'd love to have a friend who were nuts about audio while not being an electronics educated person. Somehow to use him to test hearing my amplifiers. It's like my brain tend to prefer a Class-A amplifier rather than a chinese small class D just because all the effort and money invested, like I know I have to prefer the heavier one
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Old 25th February 2014, 04:02 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by regiregi22 View Post
I'd love to have a friend who were nuts about audio while not being an electronics educated person. Somehow to use him to test hearing my amplifiers. It's like my brain tend to prefer a Class-A amplifier rather than a chinese small class D just because all the effort and money invested, like I know I have to prefer the heavier one
I can imagine that people around you find you to be a real hoot.....
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Old 26th February 2014, 10:48 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Joerytech View Post
I can imagine that people around you find you to be a real hoot.....
Sorry I don't get it, in what sense?
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Old 26th February 2014, 11:30 AM   #75
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Hello and first of all thank you very much for this excellent 3D.
PS capacitors are an old obsession of mine.
I have a question
Has anyone tried to see how the voltage at the PS caps terminal varies during most powerful passages ?

Click the image to open in full size.

My feeling is that in most commercial amps it will sag quite clearly, and i think this is not good.
Thanks a lot,
gino
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Old 26th February 2014, 02:39 PM   #76
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I guess who has scope, already checked it.
Id does fluctuate rather intense. But you can't do much about it.
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Old 27th February 2014, 08:01 AM   #77
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
....................
Has anyone tried to see how the voltage at the PS caps terminal varies during most powerful passages ?...................
Many have done this.
Some have posted scope pics of the variations.
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Old 27th February 2014, 04:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
Many have done this.
Some have posted scope pics of the variations.
What I'm interested in is a scoop reading (not a sim) of input vs output signal from a GC with small and big caps below the clipping level.

This would give some insight of the quality of the sound produced with big and small caps on a gain-clone.
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Old 27th February 2014, 06:49 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by mrWagner View Post
I guess who has scope, already checked it.
Id does fluctuate rather intense. But you can't do much about it
Hi, thanks for the very interesting reply.
I would try very big uF anyway ... like 30,000 uF/rail/channel
Just to see the effect on this fluctuation.
In the ideal case the PS voltage should not sag i suppose.
Thanks and regards,
gino
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Old 27th February 2014, 06:55 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
Many have done this.
Some have posted scope pics of the variations
Hi and thanks, but also using very high uF value for caps ?
I could be that this does not have any impact ?
Replacing a 4,700 with a 33,000 no difference ?
I am surprised ... really.
Thanks and regards,
gino
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