"this is true - I predict that after the China Economic Machine and Capitalism is fully entrenched in China - The Consumption Machine (North America & The EU) will go looking for another ripe plum to pick - Ummmm how about Africa they need some factories and jobs.... just my 2 cents. "
A friend of mine imports camping equipment and a few years ago he visited China and inspected the Coleman facory.
He told me that China provides the factory land, the factory building and dormitries and high wall around it in exchange for a percentage of the factory turnover.
After a period (15 years I think) the whole operation reverts to the Chinese government who then inherit the infrastructure and knowledge base.
It seems that when this happens the likes of Coleman will be kicked out or at least prices will go up.
If prices go up production facilities will probably move to the next third world country as has been the experience over time - Japan>Taiwan>Korea>Malaysia etc.
Eric.
A friend of mine imports camping equipment and a few years ago he visited China and inspected the Coleman facory.
He told me that China provides the factory land, the factory building and dormitries and high wall around it in exchange for a percentage of the factory turnover.
After a period (15 years I think) the whole operation reverts to the Chinese government who then inherit the infrastructure and knowledge base.
It seems that when this happens the likes of Coleman will be kicked out or at least prices will go up.
If prices go up production facilities will probably move to the next third world country as has been the experience over time - Japan>Taiwan>Korea>Malaysia etc.
Eric.
In the UK, it is almost impossible to telephone a company without being dealt with by a call centre in India.
Now, I have no problem with anybody having a job and if they can do it cheaper (although I question the 'cheaper' that accountants speak of) fair enough, but it is very difficult to understand the person that you speak to.
A friend of mine needed to speak to his ISP recently about a problem with his connection but gave up after 30 minutes because he just got tired of asking the guy to repeat what he was saying.
Now, consider this: that call and many, many more are on premium rate call charges so there is a double advantage in going this route. First, you get your staff at lower wages and (better still) your (pound-a-minute) callers are on the line three or four times longer because they can't understand what is being said to them! Accountants, don't you just love them?
Now, I have no problem with anybody having a job and if they can do it cheaper (although I question the 'cheaper' that accountants speak of) fair enough, but it is very difficult to understand the person that you speak to.
A friend of mine needed to speak to his ISP recently about a problem with his connection but gave up after 30 minutes because he just got tired of asking the guy to repeat what he was saying.
Now, consider this: that call and many, many more are on premium rate call charges so there is a double advantage in going this route. First, you get your staff at lower wages and (better still) your (pound-a-minute) callers are on the line three or four times longer because they can't understand what is being said to them! Accountants, don't you just love them?
Just when you thought it couldn't go any lower.
Well, I got my DVD player for AUD$99, then Safeway of all places starts selling them for AUD$85, and then just today I am reading my junk mail (which there is a lot of this time of year BTW) and Aldi has a DVD player for AUD$69. Unbelievable.
http://australia.aldi.com/cms/product_01/index.html
Well, I got my DVD player for AUD$99, then Safeway of all places starts selling them for AUD$85, and then just today I am reading my junk mail (which there is a lot of this time of year BTW) and Aldi has a DVD player for AUD$69. Unbelievable.
http://australia.aldi.com/cms/product_01/index.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Re: Just when you thought it couldn't go any lower.
Unbelievable? Why so? It happens all the time with the ordinary
consumer electronics. You think you get a good price, and the
next day it is cheaper.
A copule of years ago, when I still didn't own a scanner, I
saw they sold some model for around 500 SEK (I won't bother
to translate to dollars or anything, since it doesn't matter).
I decided that for that price it was worth buying a scanner
just to see if I would really have much use for one. Of course
they were already sold out when I came to the shop. They
often have just a few so they will go away quickly and people
will end up buying something more expensive instead. The
dealer said that instead he could give me a good price on an
Agfa, that was usually 1490 SEK, but I could get it for 1250. I
knew that was quite a good scanner, but didn't really think
I had much need for one so it wouldn't be worth buying it. I
told him so and after a while he said I could get it for 1100.
When he finally offered to sell it for 1000 I decided to go for
it. Know what? Just a week of two later the normal price of
this scanner was 995 SEK!!! I am sure he even knew they
would lower the price soon when he sold it to me.
Circlotron said:Well, I got my DVD player for AUD$99, then Safeway of all places starts selling them for AUD$85, and then just today I am reading my junk mail (which there is a lot of this time of year BTW) and Aldi has a DVD player for AUD$69. Unbelievable.
http://australia.aldi.com/cms/product_01/index.html
Unbelievable? Why so? It happens all the time with the ordinary
consumer electronics. You think you get a good price, and the
next day it is cheaper.
A copule of years ago, when I still didn't own a scanner, I
saw they sold some model for around 500 SEK (I won't bother
to translate to dollars or anything, since it doesn't matter).
I decided that for that price it was worth buying a scanner
just to see if I would really have much use for one. Of course
they were already sold out when I came to the shop. They
often have just a few so they will go away quickly and people
will end up buying something more expensive instead. The
dealer said that instead he could give me a good price on an
Agfa, that was usually 1490 SEK, but I could get it for 1250. I
knew that was quite a good scanner, but didn't really think
I had much need for one so it wouldn't be worth buying it. I
told him so and after a while he said I could get it for 1100.
When he finally offered to sell it for 1000 I decided to go for
it. Know what? Just a week of two later the normal price of
this scanner was 995 SEK!!! I am sure he even knew they
would lower the price soon when he sold it to me.
Morse said:
that's true in theory but if you have been to China, you will know that in terms of purchasing power there, Yuan is about 1:1 with USD. Economists usually think a 20% appreciation in Yuan is called for if Yuan is allowed to float. I would venture to say that 1) the Chinese government will not allow the Yuan to float against the USD; 2) even if Yuan is allowed to float, the advantage in labor cost will persist as the workers there will simply get paid less in Yuan: there is just such a huge pool of eager laborers. 3) even if Yuan is doubled or quardropled against the USD, there is still a decided cost advantage for producers in Asia.
Mikett said:
it will never be a zero sum game if people invest in themselves and specialize in things they do best. The problem is that there will always be a portion of the population that refuse to look into themselves and instead try to blame others for their problems.
For those people, I have zero sympathy.
mrfeedback said:
the time frame is usually 50 - 70 years (70 years by the land law there - a private person cannot own land, but can own the rights to use the land for a maximum of 70 years. The government, as an agent for the people, owns the land).
Millwood, the paradigm about economic wealth increasing has to be questioned. How it is measured is the key. Let's not even consider foreign issues first. So the value of property has gone up over the last say, 50 years; what has happened to the "asset" value of the family unit? When two incomes are needed to pay that mortgage? What has been the cost to society of children not raised properly. In a similar vein, economics does not measure the liabilities and future cost of pollution? You know it's real.
So you're visiting China to source goods. As soon as they get enough capacity they will then send an agent over and you will no longer need to travel there. We'll have no "sympathy" for you then.
How does a poor person who holds a couple jobs to make ends meet invest in themself? Have some empathy man.
So you're visiting China to source goods. As soon as they get enough capacity they will then send an agent over and you will no longer need to travel there. We'll have no "sympathy" for you then.
How does a poor person who holds a couple jobs to make ends meet invest in themself? Have some empathy man.
Hi Christer;
>>>...I saw they sold some model for around 500 SEK...Of course they were already sold out when I came to the shop. They often have just a few so they will go away quickly and people will end up buying something more expensive instead...<<<
That's called "bait and switch" in the US. In theory it's thoroughly illegal. As always, theory and practice are at odds, with practices being de facto illegal only for those without a good enough legal department and campaign contributions operation to ensure that official scrutiny is minimised.
Hi Lyra;
Sorry for going OT occasionally; as someone who's been outsourced and has had to retool his own job skills (an ongoing process at the moment), it's a topic that resonates.
Back on topic, have you tried any tweaks on your ailing Mustek? Or, have you tried to discern the cause for those alarming voltage levels you quoted? I for one would be a bit leery about using any piece of obviously malfunctioning equipment (in which dangerously high levels of AC are sometimes present) unless I thoroughly understood the causation.
Hi Millwood;
I'll admit that my experiences are in Japan, not in China. However, my understanding of Yuan vs Dollar is that while the Yuan will buy locally made goods at about 1:1 with the USD, it will not buy Japanese or western made goods at the same ratio - thus China as a market for the west is not happening the way we were promised, when trade relations were normalised. The business press lately seems to be readying people in Japan for a transition to sourcing parts from countries other than China - perhaps even back home, rather than some other source.
Hi Mikett;
Thinking about it, I don't know as I would have said that wealth creation is a "zero sum" game, but your point is very well taken that there is only a certain capacity to create wealth in terms of the amount of machine tools and raw materials availability. The reason I would have not used that term is that by the allocation of machine tool time to making more production apparatus, one can expand the manufacturing base - thus making a real gain in the future at the expense of current living standard. Unfortunately in the US in particular we're now presented with a kind of pseudo wealth: "intellectual property", the creation of which is being used to justify the trashing of the ability to make real wealth (i.e. "things" like DVD players, TV sets, valves, etc.). Watch for the Open Source movement in India and China to undercut Microsoft's de-facto monopoly in the coming years.
Excellent points about the problems with a floating currency - it's a measuring stick that changes over time by definition and thus is open to all manner of official chicanery in terms of it's "real" value. An example of that in the US with respect to electronics would be the old Dynaco amps. Certainly you can buy amps that are the equivalent of the Dynas today (IIRC wasn't there a UK company that had pretty much cloned the Dyna Stereo 70 a couple of years back?) but you can't buy them for anything like the same money. Even if you compensate for "official" inflation, you'll find that goods of that sort are pricier today (even if made in China) than they were in the 1960's.
How many people think their no-name DVD players will appreciate in time the way the old Dynacos and other "classic" electronics will? Will there be a coterie of hard core hobbyists keeping their no-names functioning years after they've been superceded by newer technologies, or will the only people working to keep their players running be the ones with "name brands"? That's very much the pattern with Open Reel enthusiasts in my experience. Similarly with the shutterbugs; I've seen "classic" cameras from pre-war Germany command a king's ransom, yet humbler cameras do not command either the money or the effort at restoration.
Just some thoughts.
Back completely on topic, has anyone tried Elna Cerafine vs Black Gate vs Nichicon Muse for output caps in their audio stages? I for one would like to hear some opinions before I start sourcing parts on this upgrade to my low dollar Sony.
All the best,
Morse
>>>...I saw they sold some model for around 500 SEK...Of course they were already sold out when I came to the shop. They often have just a few so they will go away quickly and people will end up buying something more expensive instead...<<<
That's called "bait and switch" in the US. In theory it's thoroughly illegal. As always, theory and practice are at odds, with practices being de facto illegal only for those without a good enough legal department and campaign contributions operation to ensure that official scrutiny is minimised.
Hi Lyra;
Sorry for going OT occasionally; as someone who's been outsourced and has had to retool his own job skills (an ongoing process at the moment), it's a topic that resonates.
Back on topic, have you tried any tweaks on your ailing Mustek? Or, have you tried to discern the cause for those alarming voltage levels you quoted? I for one would be a bit leery about using any piece of obviously malfunctioning equipment (in which dangerously high levels of AC are sometimes present) unless I thoroughly understood the causation.
Hi Millwood;
I'll admit that my experiences are in Japan, not in China. However, my understanding of Yuan vs Dollar is that while the Yuan will buy locally made goods at about 1:1 with the USD, it will not buy Japanese or western made goods at the same ratio - thus China as a market for the west is not happening the way we were promised, when trade relations were normalised. The business press lately seems to be readying people in Japan for a transition to sourcing parts from countries other than China - perhaps even back home, rather than some other source.
Hi Mikett;
Thinking about it, I don't know as I would have said that wealth creation is a "zero sum" game, but your point is very well taken that there is only a certain capacity to create wealth in terms of the amount of machine tools and raw materials availability. The reason I would have not used that term is that by the allocation of machine tool time to making more production apparatus, one can expand the manufacturing base - thus making a real gain in the future at the expense of current living standard. Unfortunately in the US in particular we're now presented with a kind of pseudo wealth: "intellectual property", the creation of which is being used to justify the trashing of the ability to make real wealth (i.e. "things" like DVD players, TV sets, valves, etc.). Watch for the Open Source movement in India and China to undercut Microsoft's de-facto monopoly in the coming years.
Excellent points about the problems with a floating currency - it's a measuring stick that changes over time by definition and thus is open to all manner of official chicanery in terms of it's "real" value. An example of that in the US with respect to electronics would be the old Dynaco amps. Certainly you can buy amps that are the equivalent of the Dynas today (IIRC wasn't there a UK company that had pretty much cloned the Dyna Stereo 70 a couple of years back?) but you can't buy them for anything like the same money. Even if you compensate for "official" inflation, you'll find that goods of that sort are pricier today (even if made in China) than they were in the 1960's.
How many people think their no-name DVD players will appreciate in time the way the old Dynacos and other "classic" electronics will? Will there be a coterie of hard core hobbyists keeping their no-names functioning years after they've been superceded by newer technologies, or will the only people working to keep their players running be the ones with "name brands"? That's very much the pattern with Open Reel enthusiasts in my experience. Similarly with the shutterbugs; I've seen "classic" cameras from pre-war Germany command a king's ransom, yet humbler cameras do not command either the money or the effort at restoration.
Just some thoughts.
Back completely on topic, has anyone tried Elna Cerafine vs Black Gate vs Nichicon Muse for output caps in their audio stages? I for one would like to hear some opinions before I start sourcing parts on this upgrade to my low dollar Sony.
All the best,
Morse
Mikett said:
The most valuable activity in the whole supply chain isn't in manufacturing, which the Chinese does superly today. It is in stead in branding, marketing and engineering. The Chinese aren't there yet. Eventually, they may get there (just see the Japanese and Koreans).
When it happens, I will just have to find another place to invest, and don't forget, capital is the most liquid asset.
Mikett said:
just ask all those who come from modest families (I am one of them). there must be around wherever you live.
Morse said:
That's the same here in the US. No? when you buy foreign goods, fx gets into the consideration.
Morse said:
there are clearly sectors that are less open than others (banking, legal services or insurance for example) but for the most part, the market, espcially consumer market, is open. The problem with western companies in China (and in Japan to a more extent) is that western companies have not adapted and adopted an approach tailored for the local market. And when they do, they are usually very competitive. Take Unilever for example. That's a company that is taking the cooking oil market there by storm. P&G is also doing a good job. not to mention GM (which is exporting engines from China) and Cummins.
Is it ideal? no. Can one play successfully and profitably? yes. Is it opening up? absolutely.
Morse said:
It seems I was a bit sloppy there. I don't really know if they
do it, but I suspect they sometimes do it that way. I really
don't know what the laws here say about it, but probably
it is illegal if they can be proven to do it on purpose. On the
other hand, they usually write some disclaimer like "limited
amount" or "while stock lasts" so I if they have at least a
few it is probably legally OK. On other occasions they actually
do have tonloads of the stuff they advertise. I got an inkjet
printer with ink cartridge for about the price of a replacement
cartridge that way, and they did have quite a lot of these
printers.
Christer said:
"bait and switch" is hard to prosecute for that same reason. FTC requires proof of intent (on the part of the seller) to deceive, and not to sell the advertised items. Many car dealers for example get around that with a disclaimer like the above or put a stock number / vehicle number on the ad.
Pioneer DV-563A
I have been looking at this fairly cheap DVD player for a while to use as a transport and because it would do DVD-A and SACD. BestBuy sent me a 10% off coupon, so I braved the masses of holiday shoppers and bought one. Opened it up as soon as I got home and here is what I found:
Picture of output board and ps
Switching power supply- there may be room to add a small linear ps for the analog stage, or heck, an external power supply, very high end
One BB DSD1791 dac and two BB DSD1702EG dacs, two 4560 opamps. It looks like the 4560s are buffers/filters for the 1702s, but I thought the 1791 needed an ouput buffer, its outputs are differential?
I may just do some dampening to the chassis and leave the guts alone, I will use it mainly as a transport for my Perpetual Technologies P-3A dac. I already have a good SACD player on my main system, I was just a little curious about DVD-A.
--David
I have been looking at this fairly cheap DVD player for a while to use as a transport and because it would do DVD-A and SACD. BestBuy sent me a 10% off coupon, so I braved the masses of holiday shoppers and bought one. Opened it up as soon as I got home and here is what I found:
Picture of output board and ps
Switching power supply- there may be room to add a small linear ps for the analog stage, or heck, an external power supply, very high end
One BB DSD1791 dac and two BB DSD1702EG dacs, two 4560 opamps. It looks like the 4560s are buffers/filters for the 1702s, but I thought the 1791 needed an ouput buffer, its outputs are differential?
I may just do some dampening to the chassis and leave the guts alone, I will use it mainly as a transport for my Perpetual Technologies P-3A dac. I already have a good SACD player on my main system, I was just a little curious about DVD-A.
--David
Hi David;
Thanks for the pic of the Pioneer DV563A's interior! I've thought about buying one myself....
The first thought, before you even look at electronics work, is that the boards can easily be remounted on rubber gaskets or o-rings on either side of the screw holes. The second thought is that the output caps look like they're easy enough to find, assuming those connections on the bottom left of the pic are to the audio and video outs. These can be damped with a single dab of rope caulk along one side (not the top, since those are designed to blow "up" through the top in the event of a catastrophic failure. I wasn't able to find the clock crystal in the pic, but it might just be on the other side of the main board. It's another structure that really benefits from some kind of damping (Jon Risch maintains that the "sandbag tweak" as described at his site is best overall, since blu-tak and rope caulk have internal resonances - I'm just a nervous nellie about allowing sand inside my player!).
I'm not sure how much difference it will make, but I'm planning on buying a sheet of thick vinyl sheeting of the type used for damping auto interiors with my next Parts Express order and applying it to the inside of the cabinet lid of my Sony. Before you do any such thing, I'd run it for a while and make sure that the player does not have any heating "issues" (my first and second gen Panasonic DVD's ran pretty darn hot - *knock on wood* for good luck, my A110 still runs though, at least partially because I've been religious about not stacking anything on it during operation that would let heat build up in the case).
On the switchmode power supply, I've never seen a linear power supply on any US export model of any brand - sometimes they're found on the "Japan only" players towards the top of the line, so I wouldn't hold that against the player in any way (not a bad idea to try a linear regulated power supply, just mean that it's not like the Pioneer was unduly "cheaped out"). I didn't see any ferrite clamps on the AC mains in (could be under a board or outside the view on the pic) so I'd definitely see about fitting something there. Parts Express stocks 'em as does Radio Shack - but PE is cheaper by a factor of 3 (once you order enough other stuff to make up for the S&H charge). There are a couple of tiny ferrite beads in the PS circuitry though - but I've found that with the filthy US AC mains in there's no such thing as too much RFI filtering....
Good luck on your tweaks! If it's not too much bother, I'd love to hear about how they're going for you!
All the best,
Morse
Thanks for the pic of the Pioneer DV563A's interior! I've thought about buying one myself....
The first thought, before you even look at electronics work, is that the boards can easily be remounted on rubber gaskets or o-rings on either side of the screw holes. The second thought is that the output caps look like they're easy enough to find, assuming those connections on the bottom left of the pic are to the audio and video outs. These can be damped with a single dab of rope caulk along one side (not the top, since those are designed to blow "up" through the top in the event of a catastrophic failure. I wasn't able to find the clock crystal in the pic, but it might just be on the other side of the main board. It's another structure that really benefits from some kind of damping (Jon Risch maintains that the "sandbag tweak" as described at his site is best overall, since blu-tak and rope caulk have internal resonances - I'm just a nervous nellie about allowing sand inside my player!).
I'm not sure how much difference it will make, but I'm planning on buying a sheet of thick vinyl sheeting of the type used for damping auto interiors with my next Parts Express order and applying it to the inside of the cabinet lid of my Sony. Before you do any such thing, I'd run it for a while and make sure that the player does not have any heating "issues" (my first and second gen Panasonic DVD's ran pretty darn hot - *knock on wood* for good luck, my A110 still runs though, at least partially because I've been religious about not stacking anything on it during operation that would let heat build up in the case).
On the switchmode power supply, I've never seen a linear power supply on any US export model of any brand - sometimes they're found on the "Japan only" players towards the top of the line, so I wouldn't hold that against the player in any way (not a bad idea to try a linear regulated power supply, just mean that it's not like the Pioneer was unduly "cheaped out"). I didn't see any ferrite clamps on the AC mains in (could be under a board or outside the view on the pic) so I'd definitely see about fitting something there. Parts Express stocks 'em as does Radio Shack - but PE is cheaper by a factor of 3 (once you order enough other stuff to make up for the S&H charge). There are a couple of tiny ferrite beads in the PS circuitry though - but I've found that with the filthy US AC mains in there's no such thing as too much RFI filtering....
Good luck on your tweaks! If it's not too much bother, I'd love to hear about how they're going for you!
All the best,
Morse
See definition 1
Main Entry: damp·en
Pronunciation: 'dam-p&n
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): damp·ened; damp·en·ing /'damp-ni[ng], 'dam-p&-/
Date: 1547
1 : to check or diminish the activity or vigor of : DEADEN <the heat dampened our spirits>
2 : to make damp <the shower barely dampened the ground>
3 : DAMP 1c
Main Entry: damp·en
Pronunciation: 'dam-p&n
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): damp·ened; damp·en·ing /'damp-ni[ng], 'dam-p&-/
Date: 1547
1 : to check or diminish the activity or vigor of : DEADEN <the heat dampened our spirits>
2 : to make damp <the shower barely dampened the ground>
3 : DAMP 1c
Morse said:
Hi...I was not as serious as it might look at first glance
I think the alarming output voltages is coming from some kind of fault in the switched powersupply. I can definitely!!! feel it in my fingertips when touching the output, and GND at the same time. I have had a (quick) look inside, but there was no obviosly (burned out) defects.
To me...an old electonics-engineer (who have forgotten a lot I realize when i read some of theese posts), a switched power supply is not good at all used inside equipent made for hifi/ audio. To me this is WRONG !
Switched powersupply and audio equipment = NOGO (in my ears anyway).........All the best!
P
Hi Lyra;
Glad I didn't offend! I tend to get a little preachy on the whole "we shouldn't lose our capacity to produce real wealth and become dependant on the labour of others" thing....others can and do disagree.
>>>...a switched power supply is not good at all used inside equipent made for hifi/ audio. To me this is WRONG !...<<<
Frankly SMPS can be a real pain to work with - my first thought is that some component has gone a trifle out of spec - since it's not just the primary, but secondary component values that count there (i.e. a capacitor's equivalent series resistance, a resistor's lead reactance, etc). I'm no expert on SMPS by a long shot though, and debugging 'em goes over my head. I read up on 'em enough to find out that it was going to take a while for me to experiment around enough to come up with one for a portable valve amp project I've got on the back burner. WAY on the back burner - some very qualified people (thanks Dhaen! ) were helpful in putting it into perspective....
Good luck and all the best,
Morse
Glad I didn't offend! I tend to get a little preachy on the whole "we shouldn't lose our capacity to produce real wealth and become dependant on the labour of others" thing....others can and do disagree.
>>>...a switched power supply is not good at all used inside equipent made for hifi/ audio. To me this is WRONG !...<<<
Frankly SMPS can be a real pain to work with - my first thought is that some component has gone a trifle out of spec - since it's not just the primary, but secondary component values that count there (i.e. a capacitor's equivalent series resistance, a resistor's lead reactance, etc). I'm no expert on SMPS by a long shot though, and debugging 'em goes over my head. I read up on 'em enough to find out that it was going to take a while for me to experiment around enough to come up with one for a portable valve amp project I've got on the back burner. WAY on the back burner - some very qualified people (thanks Dhaen!
) were helpful in putting it into perspective....Good luck and all the best,
Morse
oops....
Hi Lyra;
Almost forgot. Where I was going with that was, if you think the SMPS is problematic, why not convert the unit to battery power from a deep draw gel cell (and of course a charger to be run when you're not playing the unit), or build a linear regulated supply? As an EE, it should be a snap for you. Particularly in the case of battery power, you can expect some significant improvements in sound and picture quality as the RFI on the power lines will be nothing but a memory.
All the best,
Morse
Hi Lyra;
Almost forgot. Where I was going with that was, if you think the SMPS is problematic, why not convert the unit to battery power from a deep draw gel cell (and of course a charger to be run when you're not playing the unit), or build a linear regulated supply? As an EE, it should be a snap for you. Particularly in the case of battery power, you can expect some significant improvements in sound and picture quality as the RFI on the power lines will be nothing but a memory.
All the best,
Morse
Re: See definition 1
what harm can a smps do in a mostly digital device with just small output analog buffer?
Again, I would be surprised if anyone can hear the difference.
jean-paul said:
net-david said:
Lyra said:
All the best!
P
what harm can a smps do in a mostly digital device with just small output analog buffer?
Again, I would be surprised if anyone can hear the difference.
Hi Millwood;
>>>...what harm can a smps do in a mostly digital device with just small output analog buffer?...<<<
RF hash from the switching. It depends on how good the SMPS design is and how good the V+/V- rail filtering is. There's also the issue with SMPS dumping pulses of RF grunge into the AC mains that can pollute the incoming power of other components. That's why even cheapie CD/DVD players have an "X" cap at bare minimum (if they didn't they wouldn't meet Part 15 FCC criteria) - but it only acts as a 6dB/octave reduction in both incoming and outgoing RFI; the addition of a ferrite choke will add yet more filtering.
>>>...Again, I would be surprised if anyone can hear the difference...<<<
As always in audio that's debatable, but I for one have heard the grunge that switching noise can produce, and have cut it by aggressively using "X" caps, snubber caps, ferrite chokes, and even isolation transformers. Personally the best rectification for sound quality I've ever used is valve type rectification, due to it's soft switching.
If you can't hear switching noise and RF grunge, count yourself lucky - it's one less hassle you have to put up with.
All the best,
Morse
>>>...what harm can a smps do in a mostly digital device with just small output analog buffer?...<<<
RF hash from the switching. It depends on how good the SMPS design is and how good the V+/V- rail filtering is. There's also the issue with SMPS dumping pulses of RF grunge into the AC mains that can pollute the incoming power of other components. That's why even cheapie CD/DVD players have an "X" cap at bare minimum (if they didn't they wouldn't meet Part 15 FCC criteria) - but it only acts as a 6dB/octave reduction in both incoming and outgoing RFI; the addition of a ferrite choke will add yet more filtering.
>>>...Again, I would be surprised if anyone can hear the difference...<<<
As always in audio that's debatable, but I for one have heard the grunge that switching noise can produce, and have cut it by aggressively using "X" caps, snubber caps, ferrite chokes, and even isolation transformers. Personally the best rectification for sound quality I've ever used is valve type rectification, due to it's soft switching.
If you can't hear switching noise and RF grunge, count yourself lucky - it's one less hassle you have to put up with.
All the best,
Morse
Re: oops....
Have thought about it but there are to many different voltages, I don't remember exactly but I think +-5V, +-12V, -28V!!! and something with 14-15V on it. Standard computer voltages ++. Just too much job.
BTW I read somwere on the net that the DVD-unit itself was interchangeable with other standard DVD units made for PC's. This would no doubt be an advantage...as the original player is very! little fond of scrathed CD's
I think my other player is a better startingpoint for a decent player....my good old Denon DCD-2560.
Build like a tank, but I havent figured it out yet how to make the outputstage optimal with theese 4 AD-DAC's and oversampling.
Regards...
P
Morse said:
Have thought about it but there are to many different voltages, I don't remember exactly but I think +-5V, +-12V, -28V!!! and something with 14-15V on it. Standard computer voltages ++. Just too much job.
BTW I read somwere on the net that the DVD-unit itself was interchangeable with other standard DVD units made for PC's. This would no doubt be an advantage...as the original player is very! little fond of scrathed CD's
I think my other player is a better startingpoint for a decent player....my good old Denon DCD-2560.
Build like a tank, but I havent figured it out yet how to make the outputstage optimal with theese 4 AD-DAC's and oversampling.
Regards...
P
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