Because the reviewers at 6moons are rabid fantasists who for the most part never engage in any form of blind AB test so their opinion is no more actual and factual than anyone else's opinion. Just because they think they can hear a difference when they know what they are listening to doesn't mean that they actually can hear a difference or that the difference does exist.
I'd take a spec sheet over the opinion of a wacky new ager any day of the week.
I'd take a spec sheet over the opinion of a wacky new ager any day of the week.
Well for starters it is actually possible to purchase them now!
MUSES01 NJR | Mouser (01, the JFET)
MUSES02 NJR | Mouser (02, the biploar)
$75 each at Mouser. Every time I've looked in the past both Mouser and Digikey listed the part, but zero stock and 1000 piece minimum quantity. I even wrote JRC once asking if there was anywhere I could order one. No reply. When I saw your post I figured I would look again and there they were. Digikey still shows no stock.
The datasheets:
http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/PDF/MUSES01_E.pdf
http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/PDF/MUSES02_E.pdf
MUSES01 NJR | Mouser (01, the JFET)
MUSES02 NJR | Mouser (02, the biploar)
$75 each at Mouser. Every time I've looked in the past both Mouser and Digikey listed the part, but zero stock and 1000 piece minimum quantity. I even wrote JRC once asking if there was anywhere I could order one. No reply. When I saw your post I figured I would look again and there they were. Digikey still shows no stock.
The datasheets:
http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/PDF/MUSES01_E.pdf
http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/PDF/MUSES02_E.pdf
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Just my 2 cents worth. When NJR brought them to us for a demo they swapped them out and let us listen on a little pair of speakers and some eBay amps. They did sound better more musical and smoother. A person in the room that is not an audiophile was casually listening and left to do something. When she came back she said hey that sounds better what happened. The swap had been made while she was gone. I don't use the op amps but do use other Muse parts they are very nice. They have some audiophiles in house and I think this is some ones special project. Not cheap but they are different from the lead frame up as explained by the circuit designer.
I have had my X-Altra mini running with a 4562 and SCA-1 with 49710 and they are ultra smooth in my experience. The implementation is important.
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wayne, I wonder if part of the trick is that they are running the OPS with more quiescent current - the supply current is quite high at 9-12mA and the OP S/C current is VERY high for an opamp and quoted at 100mA.
That said, 75$ is extraordinarily expensive. I am tempted to put up my discrete VFA opamp design - I'd be happy to collect $75 a piece!
That said, 75$ is extraordinarily expensive. I am tempted to put up my discrete VFA opamp design - I'd be happy to collect $75 a piece!
$50 at digikey, 100 piece minimum, a $5k order..
Some on eBay from the east, for $56 each.
I've always found that when running higher current, the sound softens a bit. This can be due to field modulation vs trace/pathway sizing, as a pair. The field and thermal modulation gets 'pinned against the wall' to a certain extent. IMO.
Some on eBay from the east, for $56 each.
I've always found that when running higher current, the sound softens a bit. This can be due to field modulation vs trace/pathway sizing, as a pair. The field and thermal modulation gets 'pinned against the wall' to a certain extent. IMO.
Datasheet application circuits are like Wikipedia circuits; they are intended to be illustrative.
I've seen bad data sheet circuits used verbatim in consumer equipment. Funny thing is that a better implementation of said circuit wouldn't cost any more; but it would require a few minutes of thought.
Op amp rollers would buy them if you could purchase them individually.
The thing about "audio grade" op amps is that "on paper" many of them (not all) look quite inferior. This could cause issues when "rolling" them into a circuit. If you do not understand stuff like bandwidth, phase shift, and input bias current (all that boring engineering stuff) you can get in trouble rolling those op amps.
I like to try new devices every now and then, but this one does not make my list.
More bias is always good. While nice parts they don't fit in with what we do at Pass Labs discrete, high bias and higher Voltage.wayne, I wonder if part of the trick is that they are running the OPS with more quiescent current - the supply current is quite high at 9-12mA and the OP S/C current is VERY high for an opamp and quoted at 100mA.
That said, 75$ is extraordinarily expensive. I am tempted to put up my discrete VFA opamp design - I'd be happy to collect $75 a piece!
The difference "from lead frame up" would be the part number and price.
Brilliant marketing move because they know how stupid the market is.
I am sure Mouser has none in stock as they assume none of their customers would order one. They probably have to catalog them as an agreement to distribute all the rest of their parts.
I notice the name "Muse" comes up from many different places. Here JRC. Several seemingly unrelated Chinese-e-bay amps. I wonder what it translates to: "sucker"?
Brilliant marketing move because they know how stupid the market is.
I am sure Mouser has none in stock as they assume none of their customers would order one. They probably have to catalog them as an agreement to distribute all the rest of their parts.
I notice the name "Muse" comes up from many different places. Here JRC. Several seemingly unrelated Chinese-e-bay amps. I wonder what it translates to: "sucker"?
That's what I think.
I was browsing new op amp products the other day and found a fascinating device. It was a TI op amp in a TO-220 case that could handle 5 amps. It had stellar specs too; low noise, high speed, high linearity, high PSSR, high GBP, etc. The cost? $15 even if you only buy one.
(I should have indexed it but I didn't.) TI boasted that you could use it in any op amp application.So if TI can produce such a device and market it for $15, it makes me wonder what's inside a $50 op amp. Pixie dust and snake oil perhaps?
By the way, I love your sig.
Here is a cheaper way to try out the Muses op amps. NJR makes some noise in their marketing materials about "mass market" versions of the MUSES01 and MUSES02 chips, the MUSES8920 and MUSES8820, respectively. I believe that I saw these chips pop up on their website about a year after the 01 and 02 were released, which I took to mean "well this isn't working, lets try a different price point", lol.
Turns out Mouser has the second one in stock for $9.75 as a surface mount part, Mouser #513-MUSES8820E:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NJR/MUSES8820E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvthb15MeQ6NM57hG5DwkPr
The datasheet numbers for the MUSES8820E seem to be an exact duplicate of the MUSES02 datasheet (both bipolar chips) from what I can tell so far. The spec sheets for the JFET MUSES01 and MUSES8920E don't match up though, from quick glance, but Mouser isn't stocking the 8920 so it is a moot point anyway.
Their marketing fluff seems to be implying something about the MUSES02 being "hand tweaked" or some such thing, whatever that means, vs. "mass production" for the MUSES8820E. Translation guess by me: $65 additional audiophile crowd profit vs. a normal amount for profit for the same chip with the 8820E.
At any rate for $9.75 I'm probably going to order one in the next batch from Mouser purely out of curiousity.
Something else I got a chuckle about. From NJR's MUSES site here:
MUSES01,MUSES01D (High quality sound J-FET input dual operational amplifier for High-End Audio Equipments) | MUSES Official Website
#3 on the list: "Pursuing the excellent sound moving person's heart that can not be shown in specification numbers" . Ahhh.... that explains it....
Turns out Mouser has the second one in stock for $9.75 as a surface mount part, Mouser #513-MUSES8820E:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NJR/MUSES8820E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvthb15MeQ6NM57hG5DwkPr
The datasheet numbers for the MUSES8820E seem to be an exact duplicate of the MUSES02 datasheet (both bipolar chips) from what I can tell so far. The spec sheets for the JFET MUSES01 and MUSES8920E don't match up though, from quick glance, but Mouser isn't stocking the 8920 so it is a moot point anyway.
Their marketing fluff seems to be implying something about the MUSES02 being "hand tweaked" or some such thing, whatever that means, vs. "mass production" for the MUSES8820E. Translation guess by me: $65 additional audiophile crowd profit vs. a normal amount for profit for the same chip with the 8820E.
At any rate for $9.75 I'm probably going to order one in the next batch from Mouser purely out of curiousity.
Something else I got a chuckle about. From NJR's MUSES site here:
MUSES01,MUSES01D (High quality sound J-FET input dual operational amplifier for High-End Audio Equipments) | MUSES Official Website
#3 on the list: "Pursuing the excellent sound moving person's heart that can not be shown in specification numbers" . Ahhh.... that explains it....
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Sounds like those $600 a foot speaker cables.
Please share your opinion of them.
There are a lot of newer generation op amps that are designed for audio (OPA2134 etc) that are cheaper than that. Those MUSE amps better be good.
Hmm... What if TI, BB, ST... someone else made so expensive opamp?
For that money it MUST be a perfect opamp, the one we have been looking for?
Jeez, I even found that 6moons is full of ****.
I dont know but good old 5532 is kicking *** in every place it has been in.
Whohooo some sound cards have dip sockets, the coder sucks *** so badly that theres NO sonics what so ever.
For that money it MUST be a perfect opamp, the one we have been looking for?
Jeez, I even found that 6moons is full of ****.
I dont know but good old 5532 is kicking *** in every place it has been in.
Whohooo some sound cards have dip sockets, the coder sucks *** so badly that theres NO sonics what so ever.
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