These caps have made a dramatic improvement for everyone who has used them in the MyRef LM3886 amps. The design of the cap appears to be as significant as the value in terms of producing plentiful controlled bass.
MUNDORF M-Lytic AG Series MLGO+ (Glue-On) & MLSI+ (Snap-In) 2-Pole Electrolytic Capacitors
MUNDORF M-Lytic AG Series MLGO+ (Glue-On) & MLSI+ (Snap-In) 2-Pole Electrolytic Capacitors
Hi Andrew,
I 'm just reporting a real world result of substituting a higher grade cap in a specific application. I built some MyRefs with generic caps in that role, and some with this one:
ECO-S1HA103DA Panasonic Electronic Components | Mouser
When the AG caps were installed there was an improvement in both the quality and control of the low end - as well as better definition and energy in the mid frequencies. Nothing more complicated nor scientifically significant is implied.
I have no idea how universal that improvement would be with other amp designs or in different roles within other curcuits, but there has been an audible benefit for many in the MyRef community. Other DIYers are of course free to determine what works best for their needs.
I 'm just reporting a real world result of substituting a higher grade cap in a specific application. I built some MyRefs with generic caps in that role, and some with this one:
ECO-S1HA103DA Panasonic Electronic Components | Mouser
When the AG caps were installed there was an improvement in both the quality and control of the low end - as well as better definition and energy in the mid frequencies. Nothing more complicated nor scientifically significant is implied.
I have no idea how universal that improvement would be with other amp designs or in different roles within other curcuits, but there has been an audible benefit for many in the MyRef community. Other DIYers are of course free to determine what works best for their needs.
Hi Andrew,
I 'm just reporting a real world result of substituting a higher grade cap in a specific application. I built some MyRefs with generic caps in that role, and some with this one:
ECO-S1HA103DA Panasonic Electronic Components | Mouser
When the AG caps were installed there was an improvement in both the quality and control of the low end - as well as better definition and energy in the mid frequencies. Nothing more complicated nor scientifically significant is implied.
I have no idea how universal that improvement would be with other amp designs or in different roles within other curcuits, but there has been an audible benefit for many in the MyRef community. Other DIYers are of course free to determine what works best for their needs.
Simply people's subjective opinions are useless to determine small physical changes in circuitry however subjective opinions are very good to dictate what you enjoy! Saying that one cap is better than another on one setup is also ridiculous due to the almost infinite combinations of speaker that can be partnered with that amp.
Just interested, can you explain perhaps why this cap would be better?
Ditto. What electrical characteristics of the cap (eg ESL ) make a difference and how?
There is a point of no extra return for the extra capacitance. The transformer is half the equation, if you double the capacitance you should also increase the transformer size.
cbdb, if you have something to contribute to the amplifier power supply please join us on the thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/216409-power-supply-resevoir-size.html
I am asking the Thread opener, Rhythmsandy. So far no reply! Instead he posed another question.
Hey Boscoe
Take it for what you will - From Partsconexxion blurb:
***********
The Black (Titanium) Cathode coating is remarkably impressive at both measurements and music performance. The Titanium coating replaces the ordinary aluminum oxide coating (dielectric) in order to avoid the electrolyte being the cathode for the anode foil and, that the electrolyte operates as anode for the aluminum contact foil, simultaneously. Our Black Cathode electrolyte capacitor really does feature a separate cathode foil enabling super fast and almost loss free ion movement for reduced ESR, distortion and 'noise' to the utmost lowest level. These positive effects are similar to (but much stronger) graphite modified electrolytics (like Black-Gate).
With the MLytic® Audio Grade series we are extending our range of products to a series especially conceived for applications within pre-amplifiers or small power amplifiers.
The assemblage always refers to snap-in models for assembly boards.
Throughout its development, importance was placed upon attaining low ESR and ESL values, as well as, a low inner-sound development.
Specifications:
- Long lifespan
- All contacts welded
- Compact size
Technical specifications:
Temperature range: -40ºC... +85ºC
Max. reverse voltage: 2V
Leakage current 5 min. @ UR:0.007 * C [μF] * U [V] + 6mA
Leakage current 1 h @ UR: 0.15 * leakage current 5 min @UR
Specs.: DIN 41332 IEC 384 - 4
Insulation: Heat shrinkable tubing test voltage 3 2 500 VAC
************
My "subjective" analysis did include keeping all other parts of my system constant (including volume setting) for an accurate appraisal of the change. As in all manufacturing processes, I would suggest the base material quality and build techniques impact the operation of the item produced.
I am not disagreeing with you about the wide selection of caps or any other component in an audio system. As an example - on the MyRef there is an input cap named C13. I have auditioned 4 different brands of the same value and the two best were the cheapest ($6)and the most expensive (~$40). Go figure There are most likely several more to try over time which, IMHO is what makes DIYing fun.
Here's a link to a post about this subject (thouh not specific to power caps) that I believe supports both your and my views. I think we are generally in agreement. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/134726-new-my-ref-rev-c-thread-107.html#post2340198
Take it for what you will - From Partsconexxion blurb:
***********
The Black (Titanium) Cathode coating is remarkably impressive at both measurements and music performance. The Titanium coating replaces the ordinary aluminum oxide coating (dielectric) in order to avoid the electrolyte being the cathode for the anode foil and, that the electrolyte operates as anode for the aluminum contact foil, simultaneously. Our Black Cathode electrolyte capacitor really does feature a separate cathode foil enabling super fast and almost loss free ion movement for reduced ESR, distortion and 'noise' to the utmost lowest level. These positive effects are similar to (but much stronger) graphite modified electrolytics (like Black-Gate).
With the MLytic® Audio Grade series we are extending our range of products to a series especially conceived for applications within pre-amplifiers or small power amplifiers.
The assemblage always refers to snap-in models for assembly boards.
Throughout its development, importance was placed upon attaining low ESR and ESL values, as well as, a low inner-sound development.
Specifications:
- Long lifespan
- All contacts welded
- Compact size
Technical specifications:
Temperature range: -40ºC... +85ºC
Max. reverse voltage: 2V
Leakage current 5 min. @ UR:0.007 * C [μF] * U [V] + 6mA
Leakage current 1 h @ UR: 0.15 * leakage current 5 min @UR
Specs.: DIN 41332 IEC 384 - 4
Insulation: Heat shrinkable tubing test voltage 3 2 500 VAC
************
My "subjective" analysis did include keeping all other parts of my system constant (including volume setting) for an accurate appraisal of the change. As in all manufacturing processes, I would suggest the base material quality and build techniques impact the operation of the item produced.
I am not disagreeing with you about the wide selection of caps or any other component in an audio system. As an example - on the MyRef there is an input cap named C13. I have auditioned 4 different brands of the same value and the two best were the cheapest ($6)and the most expensive (~$40). Go figure
There are most likely several more to try over time which, IMHO is what makes DIYing fun.Here's a link to a post about this subject (thouh not specific to power caps) that I believe supports both your and my views. I think we are generally in agreement. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/134726-new-my-ref-rev-c-thread-107.html#post2340198
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The LM3886 can cope with 2200-4700 uF per rail and channel. Test it!
http://sjostromaudio.com/hifi_pics/hifi_100pr/qrp02r0_overview.jpg
I get deep base with my QRP02 design. See the picture.
hello rthythmsandy
if you saw a 4 amp rating on a cap then this is the maximum recommended ripple current thru the cap before bad things happen. it also indicates the maximum slew rate (maximum voltage change per unit time) for a given capacitance. capacitors do not store current/amps but rather electric charge across the plates which is translated into voltage depending on the capacitance.
if you saw a 4 amp rating on a cap then this is the maximum recommended ripple current thru the cap before bad things happen. it also indicates the maximum slew rate (maximum voltage change per unit time) for a given capacitance. capacitors do not store current/amps but rather electric charge across the plates which is translated into voltage depending on the capacitance.
IMO, if an amp is overly sensitive to PS cap size, there's something wrong with the design. Bad topology, bad layout, poor choice of open loop gain and the amount of feedback or something. I expect a decent amp to have decent PSRR and if you divide the output and compare it to the input, the residual should be almost non-existent. I don't always achieve this, but increasing the PS caps to crazy values is a BandAid, a symptom of something else, not something to focus on in itself.
I say experiment. Try the amp with only 470 uf! It should sound fine at lower volume, but when the output waveform hits the troughs of the supply waveform you get distortion. As long as the output swing works within to confines of the supply rail shape, there should be no adverse effects to the sound. In this condition negative feedback works to keep things in check.
If you want to have some fun, use the output of an amplifier to power another (rectified and a bit of filtering, of course).
If you want to have some fun, use the output of an amplifier to power another (rectified and a bit of filtering, of course).
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