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Old 7th April 2013, 12:09 PM   #1121
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Originally Posted by madisonears View Post

Here is my lesson from this experiment: the Wima MKP (not FKP) caps and the larger eBay polystyrenes have steel (!) leads. The smaller polystyrenes and most quality film caps have copper leads. I'm not sure if that is the determining factor, but it's the one thing the inferior sounding caps have in common.


I think the proportion of bypass to large cap is important. It might vary by combination, but I expect that anything less than 100:1 would not be effective, and anything more than 20:1 would be overwhelming or destructive of sonic coherence.

Peace,
Tom E
Hi Tom,

Very informative post. Thanks. I will be taking your hard earned lessons to heart.

A couple of thoughts. For smaller polystyrene caps, PCX has surplus caps available at very reasonable prices. The ones I have purchased all have copper leads and seem like nice quality. I will say that I purchased smaller value ones, 1 nF and lower. HiFiCollective seems to have similar parts available.

So far, I have only used them as high frequency compensation caps to reduce MHz gain on an op amp, so it is not a place where their sonic character shows through. That said, everything sounds good so far.

As for size matters, I agree. I think 100:1 could even turn out to be on the large bypass cap size in certain circuits. For example, my 1 uF C13 is bypassed with a 1 nF or 1000:1 and I can tell the difference to a 3 nF. If I were buying a cheaper cap with the intention of bypassing it, I would be tempted to buy a few sizes of bypass and experiment. Who knows, maybe 10,000:1 is perfect in some cases?

I think if I was going to bypass at 20:1, the only way it might work would be if the caps were a big and little version of the same cap, or at least something quite close to the same design. I do believe that you can get some of the benefit of bypassing when using big and small of the same cap. The smaller caps have a higher resonance, so they continue to act as capacitors to a higher frequency, even when they are the same design.

Jac

Last edited by lehmanhill; 7th April 2013 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 7th April 2013, 01:48 PM   #1122
Kreisky is offline Kreisky  Italy
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Thanks for the interesting comments
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Old 7th April 2013, 02:06 PM   #1123
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Originally Posted by madisonears View Post
As an experiment, you could try a 1.0uF Sonicap Gen I (very inexpensive) with a decent quality 0.01-0.02uF film and foil cap such as a polystyrene. Make sure it has copper leads.
Interesting idea. Im using Sonicaps for c13 and have 2 pieces of those boxed orange Siemens polystyrenes caps, 15nf value. Havent check if they got copper leads but i will definately try them as a bypass to sonicaps
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Old 7th April 2013, 07:20 PM   #1124
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The guideline regarding ratios was simply wild guessing on my part. It could very well be that smaller ratios are effective, and 20:1 harmful. This entire business is so circuit and component dependent that no one can be any more specific or authoritative about anythig other than what they have experienced themselves.

The 15nF/Sonicap could be the "sweet spot" for an initial trial. Please give it a try and let us know.

I am not trying to hijack the thread, but I have a comment that pertains to an aspect of performance that is very important to me and probably others, and a metric for evaluating that aspect. If you're not interested in a personal recommendation, skip the rest of this post.

I believe a stereo can sound good without perfectly accurate frequency response. Some amps (notably, many tubed) have flabby bass and rolled off highs and still do a good job of playing something that sounds like music. Then there are plenty (too many, in fact) of amps with solid bass and extended highs that sound like perfect machines but nothing like music. In my experinece, a system that cannot reproduce at least a certain amount of spaciousness does not ever sound like real music. If instruments or the entire image is flat, I cannot fool myself into believing the illusion, so I spend a lot of time (and words) attempting to capture and describe that attribute. The MyRef amp is among the best SS designs, at any price, I have ever heard at projecting real space, and it can also excel at producing realistic tonality with accurate FR.

The most recent configuration of my electronics/speakers has afforded me very realistic representation of three dimensional music in my listening room. I have lots of CD's and SACD's that sound good, and a few that are exceptional, but one that is truly unique in a completely unexpected manner.

There is an obscure but excellent recording (how many dozens or possibly hundreds of CD's fit that description!) called "Trailer Park" by Beth Orton, which contains a song entitled "Galaxy of Emptiness" that presents the deepest image I have ever heard from a stereo. I admit that I have been entranced by this CD, and specifically this song, in various states of legally and illegally altered consciousness. But Friday night I was perfectly sober, listening with my audio buddy who has better HF hearing than I do and whose opinion I respect. I played this song, and we were both mezmerized by the effect of hearing sounds coming from around the room, filling the entire space within all four walls, from two speakers which had totally disappeared. After he left, I had to replay that song just to be sure that I had really heard what I thought I did. It was better the second time! If you need a test of whether your system is ideally equipped and situated, this song could serve as a standard. This is not an audiophile sanctioned disc, but it should be. The rest of the CD is a superb recording of very good music, which has been described as a marriage of folk and trip hop. Not as bizarre as it seems: Beth has an engaging voice, and her songs are poetic and melodic, some of them infused with a sort of Chemical Brothers flavor, others played simply on acoustic instruments, including violins and cellos. The production is flawlessly realistic, and in this one case, uniquely hypnotic. The bass should vibrate loose windows, and I swear the synthesizer will swim alongside your head while ethereal voices echo in the emptiness of the galaxy. Spacey, in every way that word can be used.

We now return you to our tediously earthbound programming...

Peace,
Tom E

Last edited by madisonears; 7th April 2013 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 7th April 2013, 07:41 PM   #1125
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"Trailer Park" by Beth Orton. is available in "Auto-Rip". First time I'v seen something like that at Amazon.

"Galaxy of Emptiness" for $0.99 at iTunes.
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Last edited by bcmbob; 7th April 2013 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 7th April 2013, 08:09 PM   #1126
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Originally Posted by bcmbob View Post
"Trailer Park" by Beth Orton. is available in "Auto-Rip". First time I'v seen something like that at Amazon.
What the heck is auto-rip??

Tom,

Were you playing the CD or vinyl? If CD, the original 1997 recording or the remastered 2009 "Legacy Edition"? I always like a well recorded album and have enjoyed other Beth Orton songs in the past.

Jac
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Old 7th April 2013, 08:10 PM   #1127
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Amazon extends AutoRip perk to vinyl records - latimes.com

PM sent.
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Last edited by bcmbob; 7th April 2013 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 7th April 2013, 08:15 PM   #1128
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Thanks, Bob, for pointing that out. It would be interesting to know if a ripped version has the same 3D nuance as the standard CD. When I rip CD's at home, there is a definite loss of fidelity that sometimes I can tolerate, other times not, depending on the quality of the original.

Plenty of people downloading stuff these days, so it can't be all bad. I'm just not sure it will be as good.

The new CD can be bought for bargain alert a dollar, plus shipping. Worth the difference if you like the music?

I have the original CD. I dislike much remastered stuff due to loudness wars tinkering, and I've come to distrust them in general until proven otherwise. No black discs left in my house, but I get to hear vinyl on my buddy's expensive system. Sometimes it's better, other times not. So it goes with all things audio.

End of hijack.

Peace,
Tom E

Last edited by madisonears; 7th April 2013 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 7th April 2013, 08:32 PM   #1129
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Thanks for sharing.
Nice music.
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Old 7th April 2013, 08:45 PM   #1130
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This is the mastering I like : Jessie Ware
It makes speakers work
Whole albums is good, but I ll point out
Wildest Moments and
If you're never gonna move
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