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Old 27th September 2012, 07:53 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post
Can you consider LME49830 + external pair of fets as chipamp? If yes - then it is a go. When I p2p-ed it, I was surprised with the excellent sound. I run it with IRFPs, 2 pairs per ch, 700mA bias.
I hope that someday, the MyRef line of amplifiers gets a Driver Chip Amp like that one.
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Old 27th September 2012, 09:38 PM   #42
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I wonder why IRFPs seemed better to my ears than 2SJ201/2SK1530. I am not sure what kind of power topic started wants to acquire, but if it is about sweetness and simplicity, why not to make some SE class A amp. Or crazy regulator chipamp for fun. There are endless options, and still only you can determine which way you want to go. I think every DIYer have experienced some kind of addiction of some specific type of amps. For some these are chips, for some hybrids, some SE. And your mind will just fool your ears if you will believe that the one you chose is the best. At least that is what I've experienced, subjectively sounds better, but I didn't have any proof. Sorry about ofttopicy monologue.
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Old 28th September 2012, 12:02 AM   #43
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I wonder if NTP chip amp exists?
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Old 28th September 2012, 12:19 AM   #44
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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The point is, that if an amp, or system is really accurate then the sweetness or otherwise is totally dependent on the recording, has nothing to do with the playback system. For example, I should be able to put on a recent, driving blues recording, and it should have tremendous crunch, bite, visceral kick; then a string serenade immediately after and I start floating off with fairies ... that's how audio should work ...

Frank
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Old 28th September 2012, 02:01 AM   #45
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For me the sweetness of an amp comes down more to its PSU and decoupling, than the chip used. I've had sweet sound with LM3886, TDA7265, TDA7293/4, TDA2030A, LM4766 but only by ensuring the grounds aren't contaminated by noise from the PSU. Once that's fixed then the next stage is getting sweetness with depth and that seems to require better filtering of HF ripple on the PSU as no chipamp I've seen has good PSRR at higher frequencies - the best peg out below 50dB @ 20kHz.
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Old 28th September 2012, 04:06 AM   #46
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Absolutely true, thanks to sum it up.

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Originally Posted by Bare View Post
A Entirely divergent view??
After 40+ years of 'dicking' with Audio I've learned the hard way (invariably that ones' Speakers are 'at least' 85/90% of the sound produced.
Seriously: Invest in Speakers that do ..Everything.. you want before wandering off on equipment tangents.
I've been involved /responsible for a 'lot' of bespoke hi end AV setups in Clients' homes, typically north of $250K worth, serious coin.
I've learned /observed that electronics ie: Amplification.. beyond a certain quality threshold point :-) makes virtually NO audible difference whatsoever. Speakers absolutely do. Same electronics sound noticeably different on 'alternate' speakers though, despite these being Multi K$ known brand ones.
Can only suggest reordering ones' priorities for best result for $$ /time expended. ..as the First step Buy the best speakers that you can't afford.
Poor? Save up for years if needs be, It's Basic and worth it.
PS a 6.5 " driver is Not even close to providing accewptable Bass.
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Old 28th September 2012, 12:39 PM   #47
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Actually a double 6.5" or double 7" with a parallel chip amp can be quite amazing on output power (when used in normal living rooms). That's just barely enough for trouser flapping bass. But, the cost of speaker+amp is less than $100 per channel.

The Duntech Soverign is not especially economical, but fortunately most normal size rooms don't need that much speaker.
Exclusivity market pricing is not the only path to high performance. Fair pricing is according to the size area to fill with audio.
The double-woofer speaker is actually the economy performance champ since the reduced crossover price, reduced crossover noise and double cone area move compromise out of the speaker and into the amplifier where the compromise can be eventually defeated by bracing up the amplifier to handle the higher current.

I think we'll see a bit better show with the MyRef EVO2 120w (and my new TDA7294 80w) after they have completed testing and become more widely available to drive these double-woofer speakers.
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Old 28th September 2012, 03:17 PM   #48
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Daniel, I'd be interested in your view on how the parallel LM3886 amps will change the performance of the Sunflowers. They have a single 8 ohm woofer but 4 ohm for the other two legs. Matched with the current MyRefs (FE) the performance is outstanding. I have not had to use my sub since they were built.
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Old 28th September 2012, 05:09 PM   #49
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Absolutely true, thanks to sum it up.
Not quite true, the stereo sounds as good as good playing it's worst component.

I agreed that speakers and room acoustics is what most home stereos need to have improved first. But once you have decent speakers you need a decent amp and preamp to reveal the quality and good DAC as well + good recordings.

Usually person with good (absolute hearing) ends up with LP (class A DAC) and class A horns/line arrays or planar/ESL.

Subs and conventional consumer speakers deliver terrible booming bass. Best bass that preservers timber I heard so far was from Magnepans. That speakers let you enjoy very realist pipe organ recordings reproduction at home once you find amps that can let them sing.
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Old 28th September 2012, 06:04 PM   #50
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Daniel, I'd be interested in your view on how the parallel LM3886 amps will change the performance of the Sunflowers. They have a single 8 ohm woofer but 4 ohm for the other two legs. Matched with the current MyRefs (FE) the performance is outstanding. I have not had to use my sub since they were built.
The Sunflower has a light load. The MyRef-FE will drive it easily. With the Sunflower, 4 ohms for midrange and treble is not a problem because the signal isn't very tall, and so the demand isn't tall either. The chip is not strained. The speakers are suitable for that amp.

Let's take a look at what a MyRef-Evo2 can do. It will send some spike circuit noise (that hallmark midrange tone of the Overture series) into the ballast resistors where you can't hear the noise. It will also send some of the crossing noise into the ballast resistors where you can't hear the noise. Any distortion that no two chips do at precisely the same moment in time, in precisely the same way, will be sent to the ballast resistors. The ballast resistors themselves will help give the chip amp the more lavish sound of a better discrete amp (with similar build involving parallel output devices). What you get, (in comparison to the MyRef-FE) is the darker voice treatment and the mids a little more laid back and the treble a bit more refined. The parallel amplifier's more ear friendly arrangement will be more fun during loud playback.

The nested and current pump designs with their nested feedback loops already send some of this noise away by same proportion as the global loop(s). The parallel outputs will only help improve performance further. But, the tone will be different and thus your ideal component selections will be different. At the power circuit, you might not need 1000u amp decoupling caps to get rid of the overture series loud mids, since some of that noise is caught in the ballast resistors. Perhaps 680u or 470u (low esr compact) will be needed to perk up the Evo2.

To level out the situation, you use bigger amp board decoupling caps for shouty amps, smaller amp board caps for laid back amps. That's the major step to level out the harmonic response. Really good power filtering can allow the use of even smaller caps in a sort of have your cake and eat it too--clearer and more open without being more forwards. A more elegant power circuit could be important with the Evo2 since that amp doesn't need as much power side dampening/dulling to overcome its tamer mids. National Semiconductor recommends you try 470u caps for amp board decoupling and maybe that's large enough for the parallel amp. Hot tip: The low bass and bari of the LM3886 is gorgeous if we can just get the mids under control so we can utilize the big clear bass feature. Parallel amp is a step in the right direction.

After you have the two amplifiers in the comparison playing with a really similar frequency response, any remaining difference is that the current headroom of the parallel amp can sound effortless and lavish as if you spent a lot more for the amp.

Being naturally less forwards in tone, the MyRef-Evo2 is perhaps less suited for extremely quiet playback; however, it is less likely to be exhausting for longer and/or louder listening sessions.

An additional difference, according to AN1192.pdf from National Semiconductor, is that the spike system limiter may or may not begin making noises for all excursion greater than 45 watts. This is postponed to 80 watts with the parallel amp. So, we should have tamer mids. . . which can allow for better quality tuning of the power circuit for clearer audio with more lavish bass bari and treble, if you choose to utilize the tolerances that way.
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