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Old 22nd September 2012, 10:20 AM   #21
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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I'm agreeing with madisonears. Here is a link to a subjective live review of the beta version of the MyRef-Fremen Edition vs. a good tube amp.

The FE is now in the release candidate phase and sounding "sweeter" and warmer as it's development progresses.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 11:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
If these really are the finest, then I'm of the opinion that the best chipamps perform far worse than the good discrete designs available.
SO, since we're in the chip amp forum, may I interpret your answer as "Driver Chip" for the sweet sound?

P.S.
As for MyRef, I'm awaiting the parallel version. Both the spike system and current noise have a tone (harmonic noise) to them. MyRef's feedback eats some of that noise. Ballast resistors for parallel would eat some more of that noise. And ballast resistors eat up some crossing noise too. On theory, MyRef's got the win hands down until it comes to the cheapskate output devices, that would improve tremendously if paralleled. Want Parallel MyRef! Got 4 NOS LM3886T saved up for the occasion, but it has been a long wait. Chips don't compete with discrete amp's tone unless you make Parallel chip amp. Of course that sounds a lot like discrete amp with paralleled outputs. So, if parallel LM3886 MyRef isn't doable, perhaps the designers would try Driver Chip, Howland Current Pump with parallel output devices? Far more power and better tone that way, yet similar cost, and probably easier than paralleled chips.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 11:32 AM   #23
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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Daniel, Are you referring to something like this?
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Old 23rd September 2012, 01:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcmbob View Post
Daniel, Are you referring to something like this?
Hi Bob! Thank you for the updated information.
MyRef X2 Evo-2 (parallel lm3886 howland current pump)
Click the image to open in full size.
(one channel shown)
And, Hooray!! LM3886 Parallel means quality outputs at last! Might should have started with quality output for less current noise, less spike noise, better tone and enhanced compatibility with modern speakers such as the Statement series. However, since quality output is a major change, do you have any news on how the fine tuning redo is progressing? Is it "Spacious" yet?
P.S.
Experimenting with a fine "Driver chip with parallel output devices" build, might be easier for howland current pump than parallel chip amp. Driver chip is almost plug-n-play with existing MyRef designs, except also incurring a fine tuning redo since using quality output devices needs tuned for less masking, because you start out with the tone already excellent.
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Old 23rd September 2012, 02:52 PM   #25
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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Hey Daniel,

Just to be clear if I wasn't - there are two current paths in the MyRef development. The Fremen Edition is being headed by Dario Inserra who lives in Italy. The parallel design is from Sivasankar Chander who is based in India. Siva's haven't been released yet but we are all looking forward to that date. Both designers have shared their knowledge and experience ever since the MR v1.2 days. The future will tell how much cross development develops.

For the FE RC, around twenty builders are in the "tuning" process. We are probably still in the early weeks of a window ~ six mouths. Not a whole lot more has to be done as all who have completed the amp are quite impressed.

I have been following the Statements speakers for years and consider them probably the only design I would consider as a future project (actually have the wood cut for a pair of monitors). With the "Sunflower" design which is also OB mid-range with a fairly sophisticated XO, the FE RC amps are as open and spacious as anything I have owned.

I wont wax glorious on the MyRefs and totally hijack this thread, but your design ideas are truly intriguing and I hope you will become an active contributor to the MyRef development in the near future.
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File Type: jpg MR2.jpg (298.8 KB, 392 views)
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:26 AM   #26
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I have been following the Statements speakers for years and consider them probably the only design I would consider as a future project (actually have the wood cut for a pair of monitors).
The new RS180 4 ohm alloy cone woofer is higher resolution part at the cost of a greater reactive load. It easily knocks out a solo LM3886TF. Amplifier noises include minor screeching, unbalanced tone of current noise, and loud clunks from the protection repeatedly flipping the mute on and off as the chip slowly breaks down.

MyRef-X2 (the Parallel MyRef) could drive it; however. . .

Since, actually, speakers are the output, let's look again at the speaker.
Quote from Jim Holtz (circa 2008~2009): "The RS180-4 version was selected after evaluation. We found the 4 ohm version of the RS180 had extended bass just like the 8 ohm but with a higher sensitivity which allowed more flexibility in amp selection." How unfortunate. First, that bit about the amp is backwards (or maybe they were talking about a t-amp). Second, the old RS180-4 is discontinued and the new substitute sucks at efficiency--there's no advantage to the 4 ohm load in this case. The fix for both errors is new, unshielded, RS180-8. There will be some crossover work, but, supporting 8 ohm amplifiers, like MyRef-FE is seriously overdue for the Statement Monitor.
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Old 24th September 2012, 10:30 AM   #27
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
The new RS180 4 ohm alloy cone woofer is higher resolution part at the cost of a greater reactive load. It easily knocks out a solo LM3886TF. Amplifier noises include minor screeching, unbalanced tone of current noise, and loud clunks from the protection repeatedly flipping the mute on and off as the chip slowly breaks down.
Daniel's version of "new science".
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Old 24th September 2012, 11:27 AM   #28
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Well sir, the energy to make more trips faster comes from the amplifier--no free lunch. The old RS180-4 was efficient, but the new RS180-4 is less efficient. Beating up the amplifier with the new RS180-4 is pointless, given that the efficiency is not significantly different for the new RS180-8.

Instead of using the new reduced efficiency 4 ohm woofer, the Statement Monitor needs adapted to use the nice 8 ohm woofer, amplifier intact.

EDIT:
On topic of this thread, reducing current noise. . .
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Old 24th September 2012, 05:32 PM   #29
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
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Daniel,At least 10years back i tried with this LM1875 that was nothing special I remembered that sound was very clean but something missing.Yes i have played that amp one to one and half year.not bad it was!! but i remembered that little noisy TDA2030A was my good feverish.TDA2030A sounds like crispy but no magic.TDA 2009 have some magic of sweetness in 8Ohm load but very low power, only 6+6 watts into 8Ohm.
I have old Chario Cinthear tower speaker, three way. Dome tweeter and 6.5 Inch mid band is front facing and another 6.5 inch low band is floor firing bass reflex. deliver true flat sound. bass is no deep
I want to go for active crossover system.
A Entirely divergent view??
After 40+ years of 'dicking' with Audio I've learned the hard way (invariably that ones' Speakers are 'at least' 85/90% of the sound produced.
Seriously: Invest in Speakers that do ..Everything.. you want before wandering off on equipment tangents.
I've been involved /responsible for a 'lot' of bespoke hi end AV setups in Clients' homes, typically north of $250K worth, serious coin.
I've learned /observed that electronics ie: Amplification.. beyond a certain quality threshold point :-) makes virtually NO audible difference whatsoever. Speakers absolutely do. Same electronics sound noticeably different on 'alternate' speakers though, despite these being Multi K$ known brand ones.
Can only suggest reordering ones' priorities for best result for $$ /time expended. ..as the First step Buy the best speakers that you can't afford.
Poor? Save up for years if needs be, It's Basic and worth it.
PS a 6.5 " driver is Not even close to providing accewptable Bass.
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Old 24th September 2012, 05:39 PM   #30
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My personal opinion on which chip sounds more sweet - LT1210, inverting, driven by some opamp.
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