I'm thinking of building myself a set of gainclones and it would be great if you guys could point me in the right direction. 
I want a good sounding amp with commercial PCBs, preferably a complete kit.
Maybe a balanced monobloc build? I've got balanced XLR connections from my DAC so why not go for balanced all the way?
Is there a kit you could recommend? I don't care about the amps heritage as long as it sounds good.
I wouldn't mind if the kit came complete with PSUs as well.
(I'm tired of my big'ol monoblocs and want something smaller, more discrete...)
I want a good sounding amp with commercial PCBs, preferably a complete kit.
Maybe a balanced monobloc build? I've got balanced XLR connections from my DAC so why not go for balanced all the way?
Is there a kit you could recommend? I don't care about the amps heritage as long as it sounds good.
I wouldn't mind if the kit came complete with PSUs as well.
(I'm tired of my big'ol monoblocs and want something smaller, more discrete...)
Audiosector.com the lm4780 kit can be used in a balanced setup in the bridged configuration I believe. The kit come with power supply and amp boards and all the parts you need. The boards are of the highest quality, and so is the customer service. Check out the audiosector threads in the commercial area.
If you like, it might be worth taking a look at the "41 Hz" website. Tripath amps of various types, costs, outputs, complexity; and with various power supply options. There is also a forum on the site for trouble shooting and discussion.
It is a good site to have a look at whatever you decide.
It is a good site to have a look at whatever you decide.
Gainclone vs UCD180 depends on application. In my system the gainclone sounds better then the UCD amp, but I'm using it only for midrange duties in an active system with medium/high effiency drivers. The gainclone with small psu capacitance is not an amp for low efficiency loudspeakers with complex crossovers. I didn't like the gainclone with big psu caps though. In that case you will be better off with an UCD amp. So, is one better then the other ? No, it depends. Very frustrating answer, I know, but that's how it is.
By the way, all my Tube amps (one ecl82pp, two 300B set) sound better in the midrange than either the gainclone or UCD amp, but I don't want to know because I don't want to use tubes or class A ss anymore for the reason that I (and my family) like to listen to music all day long every day, the whole year around without having to worry about tube life or the electricity bill. With the UCD amps and Gainclones instead of tubes and class A ss amps in an active three way system the standby power use went down from around 350Watt to less then 50 watt, including PC, crossover and six mono power amps and after some tweaking it sounds almost as good now.
By the way, all my Tube amps (one ecl82pp, two 300B set) sound better in the midrange than either the gainclone or UCD amp, but I don't want to know because I don't want to use tubes or class A ss anymore for the reason that I (and my family) like to listen to music all day long every day, the whole year around without having to worry about tube life or the electricity bill. With the UCD amps and Gainclones instead of tubes and class A ss amps in an active three way system the standby power use went down from around 350Watt to less then 50 watt, including PC, crossover and six mono power amps and after some tweaking it sounds almost as good now.
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that's a little "harsh". i love the sound of class D, particularly with trewble polite soft dome tweeters like on super zeros. in comparison, my NAD sounded like a wet blanket and my onlyo a little grainy. my panasonic? i love it. it doesn't agree quite as well with aluminum domes now that i'm breaking a nice pair of energy RC-10s, but harsh is not the word i'd use, maybe a little bit clinical, but my panny did wonders for making the most out of the soft dome treble and especially lit up the midrange. now, i'm looking to go the other way and bring some warmth to the aluminum tweeters with either a high end class D amp or a chip amp now that i'm reading up on alternatives. at one time, halcros were called "best in the world", you don't get that by being harsh.
it all boils down to system synergy. if you have 2x ruthlessly revealing gear like my current speakers and amp combo, you'll stray from warmth. actually though, i like a little bit of ruthlessness in the treble. i'm loving the speed my system is doing cowbells etc. these days. i'll try a chip amp first to see if that harmonizes with my speakers better, but i still love my panasonic. my onkyo imaged a little better, but after switching to class D, i finally heard what grain is. the NAD? don't miss it at all.
it all boils down to system synergy. if you have 2x ruthlessly revealing gear like my current speakers and amp combo, you'll stray from warmth. actually though, i like a little bit of ruthlessness in the treble. i'm loving the speed my system is doing cowbells etc. these days. i'll try a chip amp first to see if that harmonizes with my speakers better, but i still love my panasonic. my onkyo imaged a little better, but after switching to class D, i finally heard what grain is. the NAD? don't miss it at all.
You don't really need a kit for a gainclone. Just buy a pair of LM3875 chips and use the schematic in the datasheet. The circuit is only a few parts and can easily be point to point wired.
As far as Class D goes, UcD at its best with LM4562 sounds warm-bodied and smooth, but sterile. T-amps at their best, are extremely detailed and I love the airyness, but a bit thin and analytical. Gainclones are more euphonic and analogue sounding. Music is more enjoyable even though it doesn't have the top end detail of the T-amps. None of these sound as good as my Tubelab Single Ended 45 amp, but that thing presents music in an entirely different manner.
As far as Class D goes, UcD at its best with LM4562 sounds warm-bodied and smooth, but sterile. T-amps at their best, are extremely detailed and I love the airyness, but a bit thin and analytical. Gainclones are more euphonic and analogue sounding. Music is more enjoyable even though it doesn't have the top end detail of the T-amps. None of these sound as good as my Tubelab Single Ended 45 amp, but that thing presents music in an entirely different manner.
i too love class D. my panasonic spanks the crap out of NAD with superzeros and even my onkyo with lower grain and lusher vocals, but the marriage isn't quite as happy with my very first pair of aluminum domes on my first mid-fi speakers. there's more detail than ever in my system now, but i'm hearing more of that life sucked out sound everyone talks about with class D that my superzeros weren't fast enough in the treble to resolve so i want to balance it with some warmth.
i still love my panasonic, but now have speakers that are up to revealing it's limitations.
i'm looking into "ultimate chip amps". 3875s seem to be most popular and i've already read great things about patek builds before seeing everyone's favorite audiosector kits are really pateks, but if there's an even better sound, i'm looking for that and will accept lower power and less bass. honestly, i doubt i'm even using 5 watts worth of power for most of my listening as i listen at conversational levels most of the time.
for a minute, i was thinking of going the exact other route and trying a minwatt tube amp, but don't like the idea of having to buy replacement parts. i wasn't particularly impressed with tube sound the time i heard it on some demo speakers in a shop either once.
as it's easy & cheap to chip, i'm liking the idea of trying this route first. besides, the TBI sounds millenia i was looking into is an integrated while i'm really interested in the western electric tubed minidac which has it's own preamp already, so i'm looking to go simple with monoblocks.
if i had the money, i'd likely get a cary class D as it even beat a patek in a shootout, but my name IS budget minded afterall. i only bought the energy RC-10s i lusted after on closeout when they got down to $220 from their $600 list. i'm happy with that score let me tell you, but they are less forgiving than superzeros, but dig deeper and tweet much faster and image almost as precisely. i want to warm them up just a bit as my system is now clinical + clinical.
i still love my panasonic, but now have speakers that are up to revealing it's limitations.
i'm looking into "ultimate chip amps". 3875s seem to be most popular and i've already read great things about patek builds before seeing everyone's favorite audiosector kits are really pateks, but if there's an even better sound, i'm looking for that and will accept lower power and less bass. honestly, i doubt i'm even using 5 watts worth of power for most of my listening as i listen at conversational levels most of the time.
for a minute, i was thinking of going the exact other route and trying a minwatt tube amp, but don't like the idea of having to buy replacement parts. i wasn't particularly impressed with tube sound the time i heard it on some demo speakers in a shop either once.
as it's easy & cheap to chip, i'm liking the idea of trying this route first. besides, the TBI sounds millenia i was looking into is an integrated while i'm really interested in the western electric tubed minidac which has it's own preamp already, so i'm looking to go simple with monoblocks.
if i had the money, i'd likely get a cary class D as it even beat a patek in a shootout, but my name IS budget minded afterall. i only bought the energy RC-10s i lusted after on closeout when they got down to $220 from their $600 list. i'm happy with that score let me tell you, but they are less forgiving than superzeros, but dig deeper and tweet much faster and image almost as precisely. i want to warm them up just a bit as my system is now clinical + clinical.
My favourite is the LM3875 in the classic minimalist Gainclone setup. Have to say though I would NEVER describe the Class D TA2020 41Hz Amp6-Basic I have as harsh or cold or lifeless. Completely the opposite in my opinion...
Amazing ain't it? Everyone has a Favourite horse to flog.
Stereophile once measured/published a review documenting the Ta amp chips as 'cleaner' than the gainclones.
Does it matter even a little when typical Audio Weenie is rapidly losing their hearing or has already lost significant portions of it if over 40yrs old ?
If 60..? then an ear trumpet is a possibility
Hell.. I still can't get/find a CD player to produce reasonably acceptable sounds.
My LPs are wearing (worn?) out.
In the Vinyl heyday it was generally accepted that by the 8th playing an LP record had audibly worn. Imagine 100 playings let alone 200.
Computer /Ipod/ Iphone Music? earbuds are more than aedquate IMO.
How many Angels on the head of a Pin concerns
Stereophile once measured/published a review documenting the Ta amp chips as 'cleaner' than the gainclones.
Does it matter even a little when typical Audio Weenie is rapidly losing their hearing or has already lost significant portions of it if over 40yrs old ?
If 60..? then an ear trumpet is a possibility
Hell.. I still can't get/find a CD player to produce reasonably acceptable sounds.
My LPs are wearing (worn?) out.
In the Vinyl heyday it was generally accepted that by the 8th playing an LP record had audibly worn. Imagine 100 playings let alone 200.
Computer /Ipod/ Iphone Music? earbuds are more than aedquate IMO.
How many Angels on the head of a Pin concerns
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GainClone site letdowns
Agree completely with this observation.
One thing I'd like to point out is the people who have the DIY GainClone sites that have prettty much abandoned their patrons. Sites aren't updated for 6mos or a year at a time. Most of the links take you to a '404 unknown" or blank page. If you're going to give up, at least link to someone who has not, or an active forum.
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Could I get an AMEN from the Choir!
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.
Agree completely with this observation.
One thing I'd like to point out is the people who have the DIY GainClone sites that have prettty much abandoned their patrons. Sites aren't updated for 6mos or a year at a time. Most of the links take you to a '404 unknown" or blank page. If you're going to give up, at least link to someone who has not, or an active forum.
.
Could I get an AMEN from the Choir!
.
.
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What the heck, I might as well cast a vote for my own kit, the Akitika GT-101. It's a bit different than some, in that it has a regulated power supply, and is complete except for the solder. If it's not pushing the limits of shameless commerce, please take a look:
Akitika GT-101
Akitika GT-101
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