Okay, so I am a poor college student looking for a project to do over Christmas. The gainclone is really starting to look nice, but I can't seem to find a thread that gives a rundown of the cost of parts to build one! (Chips, PSU, connectors, etc). I know I'm a newbe at this, and I will only have about 3 weeks to put together a amp that will be in a condition where I can take it back to school w/o tweaking--just woundering if anyone has any opinions on this goal?
P.s. I also want to build a gainclone because I have a really nice design for a case--Oak and Glass on black velvet!
P.s. I also want to build a gainclone because I have a really nice design for a case--Oak and Glass on black velvet!
I've you're not including the price for your case it can be very cheap (oak and glass sounds nice though). But often the case costs a large portion of the total cost, so if you don't already have the oak and glass that'll bring the cost up.
Peter is right though, it can be cheap or expensive, and for sure the $500 amp isn't 10 times better than the $50 amp, but it will probably be better in some respects. But when you get into more expensive "gainclones" I feel that most of the extra costs are going towards fancy enclosures for them. Which some may argue that they provide better sonics (our friend Peter here advocates so) others may be willing to pay the price solely for good looks.
So it can cost alot, but don't think it has to cost alot to sound amazing...
Peter is right though, it can be cheap or expensive, and for sure the $500 amp isn't 10 times better than the $50 amp, but it will probably be better in some respects. But when you get into more expensive "gainclones" I feel that most of the extra costs are going towards fancy enclosures for them. Which some may argue that they provide better sonics (our friend Peter here advocates so) others may be willing to pay the price solely for good looks.
So it can cost alot, but don't think it has to cost alot to sound amazing...
Nice case is probably a driving force (in some cases) to built a GC. What I learned so far is that the least complex case gives best results. So if your GC doesn't have to look fancy, use a chunk of metal (be it aluminum or copper) and attach everything to it and use a sort of spike support and this will probably produce the most acurate sound from your amp. Adding additional panels and building it up only complicates matters and veils the sound.
Here's the pic of my monos, and if it wasn't for aestchetics, the side panels wouldn't be really required. Just the frame around (to dissipate heat) and the copper bar to add mass and stability. When you look at this design, it is certainly as simple as it can get. Chip mounted to the bar, caps below and close to chip, pins from caps run directly to the bridges, which are on the other side of chip and as tight as possible. Copper bar acts as main pillar, it is supported by the cone, the cone releases vibrations to the platform below. Also, the copper bar is used to hold together the whole amp's assebly and transfers the heat to top, bottom and front panels. The caps are attached with a piece of rubber (this way the vibrations are not that influential here). The transformer is mounted directly behind the bar (the bar acts as a shield) and the wires from TX to the bridges are also minimized.
So far, this is the best sounding GC I've made. The previous experience, tells me that for the amp to sound good, you need metal frame. If you use too much wood the sound becomes dull.
Here's the pic of my monos, and if it wasn't for aestchetics, the side panels wouldn't be really required. Just the frame around (to dissipate heat) and the copper bar to add mass and stability. When you look at this design, it is certainly as simple as it can get. Chip mounted to the bar, caps below and close to chip, pins from caps run directly to the bridges, which are on the other side of chip and as tight as possible. Copper bar acts as main pillar, it is supported by the cone, the cone releases vibrations to the platform below. Also, the copper bar is used to hold together the whole amp's assebly and transfers the heat to top, bottom and front panels. The caps are attached with a piece of rubber (this way the vibrations are not that influential here). The transformer is mounted directly behind the bar (the bar acts as a shield) and the wires from TX to the bridges are also minimized.
So far, this is the best sounding GC I've made. The previous experience, tells me that for the amp to sound good, you need metal frame. If you use too much wood the sound becomes dull.
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Thanks--I was thinking of a budget of about $100 for the parts (case excluded). I guess I could line the case with metal foil as a cheap shieding. I have been reading up on the Amp and it seems easy to make, The main thing now is reading up on the PSU--I have never built anything before that works off of house current.
Be sure to read up on PSU design, you'll find it easy to understand (at first) but if you follow others examples you won't have to design a super psu, just use the standard gainclone psu. BUT be real sure to understand the safety issues with the psu, that's the most important thing to understand.
As for the wood chasis, I like the sound coming out of a wood chasis, I've always had some metal with the wood of course, but I really like to look of wood so I often use it. Peter's opinions are great, but don't think your amp will sound bad because you use wood, it's just what he noticed. It's all a matter of opinion in the end.
As for the wood chasis, I like the sound coming out of a wood chasis, I've always had some metal with the wood of course, but I really like to look of wood so I often use it. Peter's opinions are great, but don't think your amp will sound bad because you use wood, it's just what he noticed. It's all a matter of opinion in the end.
Hi Mike,
For my stereo pair:
PSU:
A 225VA toroid I had lying around, I estimate ~EUR 10.
I still had some Schottky diodes, estimate ~EUR. 8
prices are for the whole lot, not a piece.
AMPS:
5x LM3875TF NatSemi samples: $12.95 ~EUR. 13
4x Sprague 1000uF 50V ~EUR 1.00 (on sale at a local electronics dumpstore)
2x Philips 0.22uF MKT ~EUR 1.00
2x Philips 22uF ~EUR 1.00
Resistors: Standard stuff, a few euros.
Volume/lineswitch: el cheapo ~EUR. 3.00
Wiring: a few euros.
Case: two 1-2 mm stainless steel oval-like boxes people use to store flower/sugar in etc. EUR. 5.00
one for PSU, other for amps.
So you CAN build it pretty 'on the cheap' say for like EUR. 35...
But then, when I hooked it up, it sounded so much better than my old amp I decided to put in a few extra pennies:
Amplimo 225VA 2x22V secondaries ~EUR. 43
Neutrik powercons (expensive!)
Good, VMS/AK (twisted and heavily shielded powercable, mainly for industrial use), power cables (not too expensive)
Nice gold-plated RCA/cinch thingies ~EUR 2 a piece.
All silver/silver plated copper wiring with teflon insulation.
I will replace my signal-in capacitor with a Black Gate.
Better (decent!) resistors (pretty expensive imho).
An Alps Blue Velvet stereo volume pot.
A nice 4x3 lineswitch (gold plated)
Better interconnects (self made silver-teflon)
I did keep it in the stainless steel box (which looks pretty cool, i'll post some pics later).
You name it. In the end I think it cost me around EUR. 150 in total (and I have a lot of spare parts left to build the rest of my home cinema set with!)
For my stereo pair:
PSU:
A 225VA toroid I had lying around, I estimate ~EUR 10.
I still had some Schottky diodes, estimate ~EUR. 8
prices are for the whole lot, not a piece.
AMPS:
5x LM3875TF NatSemi samples: $12.95 ~EUR. 13
4x Sprague 1000uF 50V ~EUR 1.00 (on sale at a local electronics dumpstore)
2x Philips 0.22uF MKT ~EUR 1.00
2x Philips 22uF ~EUR 1.00
Resistors: Standard stuff, a few euros.
Volume/lineswitch: el cheapo ~EUR. 3.00
Wiring: a few euros.
Case: two 1-2 mm stainless steel oval-like boxes people use to store flower/sugar in etc. EUR. 5.00
one for PSU, other for amps.
So you CAN build it pretty 'on the cheap' say for like EUR. 35...
But then, when I hooked it up, it sounded so much better than my old amp I decided to put in a few extra pennies:
Amplimo 225VA 2x22V secondaries ~EUR. 43
Neutrik powercons (expensive!)
Good, VMS/AK (twisted and heavily shielded powercable, mainly for industrial use), power cables (not too expensive)
Nice gold-plated RCA/cinch thingies ~EUR 2 a piece.
All silver/silver plated copper wiring with teflon insulation.
I will replace my signal-in capacitor with a Black Gate.
Better (decent!) resistors (pretty expensive imho).
An Alps Blue Velvet stereo volume pot.
A nice 4x3 lineswitch (gold plated)
Better interconnects (self made silver-teflon)
I did keep it in the stainless steel box (which looks pretty cool, i'll post some pics later).
You name it. In the end I think it cost me around EUR. 150 in total (and I have a lot of spare parts left to build the rest of my home cinema set with!)
Here is my breakdown of two amps.
Ellie's amp is the standard non-inverted gainclone.
Hybrid Gainclone is the JLTi hybrid valve / SS inverted gainclone
(Macros on the hybrid excel sheet are addition things...Not viruses!!!
)
Also, please note that this is only what I could think of at the time...it won't include small things. Esp the hybrid list
Gaz
Ellie's amp is the standard non-inverted gainclone.
Hybrid Gainclone is the JLTi hybrid valve / SS inverted gainclone
(Macros on the hybrid excel sheet are addition things...Not viruses!!!
)Also, please note that this is only what I could think of at the time...it won't include small things. Esp the hybrid list
Gaz
Mike,
The gainclone is the amp for you!
College guys have to start making these to keep the flame of
audiophilia burning. Use the cheaper components except for the feedback resistor maybe. Get it going durring Christmas, you can upgrade later. Then demo it to all your friends, and get them to make 'em: Have a seminar in your dorm room, sign up some people, buy the parts, and help them all make amps-couldn't take more than 2 evenings
The gainclone is the amp for you!
College guys have to start making these to keep the flame of
audiophilia burning. Use the cheaper components except for the feedback resistor maybe. Get it going durring Christmas, you can upgrade later. Then demo it to all your friends, and get them to make 'em: Have a seminar in your dorm room, sign up some people, buy the parts, and help them all make amps-couldn't take more than 2 evenings
I like that mindset! You sold me on a Gainclone. The only hurdle is the fact that I am going to be spending a nice chuck of cash on an HT receiver (Harmon Kardon AVR525 bout $650) real soon. I thought about a 7 channel gainclone, but it seemed rather impractical in the end for my needs. Hopefully I will have enough money left over to build the amp! P.s. Should I build to use the preout of my receiver or as a stand alone integrated?
I kinda found the Transformer to be the most expensive "part". Partsexpress seems to have some of the best deals on torids, and those are ~$42 for 350VA ones. Now if I wanted to use regular style transformers, than I'm only looking at maybe $15 or $20. But easily the transformer can suck up the money.
Hey mike! Im in the same boat as you. Also a college student (CPE/EE major, heh) and looking into building a GC over the christmas break. The PSU seems to be the most expesive part so far, and the only thing im not to sure how to put together.
Anyways, send me an email, ihkhalif@ncsu.edu, and maybe we can discuss plans/share links.
Anyways, send me an email, ihkhalif@ncsu.edu, and maybe we can discuss plans/share links.
Yeap, I have a new idea for the case--I have a pionner cd changer that has a ton of free space inside of it, I am thinking of building the amp in there for an intergrated solution
p.s. as an entrepreneur mangement major--If someone where to sell PSU kits for the gainclone I think a lot of people would be intrested
p.s. as an entrepreneur mangement major--If someone where to sell PSU kits for the gainclone I think a lot of people would be intrested
mikejz84 said:
p.s. as an entrepreneur mangement major--If someone where to sell PSU kits for the gainclone I think a lot of people would be intrested
If you could suggest a good price point, I might start selling those units: 400VA Plitron toroid, double MUR860 bridges, Kimber umbilical cord, 1/8, powder coated, steel tubing enclosure. Comes with matching chassis mount sockets.
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The price you charge really is going to depend on the person you are marketing the item too. For example, I have yet to build my first gainclone--and when I do build my first one I will build it with the cheapest parts I can find. In my case am I going to spend $300 on a PSU for an amp that costs less then $100 to build? No.
On the other hand If your psu design is a sound design and I where to get more into GC amps and say wanted to build one with top rate parts and everything---Would I be willing to spend the money? Depends on if I feel comfortable building the PSU myself. But in the end it would be an inviting option.
Maybe instead of a full psu how about a kit? With PCB, required parts, and a guide---I really think there would be a market for that.
On the other hand If your psu design is a sound design and I where to get more into GC amps and say wanted to build one with top rate parts and everything---Would I be willing to spend the money? Depends on if I feel comfortable building the PSU myself. But in the end it would be an inviting option.
Maybe instead of a full psu how about a kit? With PCB, required parts, and a guide---I really think there would be a market for that.
The kit idea is a good one. The buyer gets all the parts he/she needs, at only a modest cost above the low volume supplier prices. and a lot less hassle. The seller gets the advantage of the volume discount and the only labor is divvying them up and mailing which is a pain but kinda Zen. OK, and cutting the case tubing
The nightmare is when things don't work when assembled, but I think something as simple as a power supply would be a pretty safe bet. In fact no warrantee would be required I'd think.
You may be able to charge 50% above your cost. The problem is the trannie. Heavy and expensive. I don't know how much volume discount you get on those. Why not run a kit price by us including the steel tube case. Alu case option?
The nightmare is when things don't work when assembled, but I think something as simple as a power supply would be a pretty safe bet. In fact no warrantee would be required I'd think.
You may be able to charge 50% above your cost. The problem is the trannie. Heavy and expensive. I don't know how much volume discount you get on those. Why not run a kit price by us including the steel tube case. Alu case option?
Steel tubing is not a problem as it's just cut and painted (with some deburring done). The problem is front and rear panels, which are cut out of acrylic with some additional mounting holes in a back panel. Also, accurate fit of those panels is not that easy to achieve, as the inside sizing of steel tubes isn't consistant. I still find it a convenient housing for PS, and aluminum 6 x3 tubing was really hard to source as well finishingwould be much more complicated. Steel provides better shielding as well. I couldn't find any practical ready made inclosures which were right size for 400VA toroid.
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