Between these two types of music you posted earlier, are you using the same polarity for playback?
Amazon.com: Blue Note Years 1: Boogie Woogie Blues & Bop: Various Artists: Music
Amazon.com: Leonard Bernstein: The Symphony Edition: Gustav Mahler, Johannes Brahms, Ludwig van Beethoven, Robert Schumann, Jean Sibelius, Franz Joseph Haydn, Carl Nielsen, Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic Orchestra: Music
(I have the digital uncompressed vol #3 files)
Jriver has the capability to reverse polarity in the DSP options.
I though they were Mundorfs
Bob is not using my recommended input cap (Zn in C13) but Sonicaps.
The Mundorfs he was referring to are the big smoothing caps (C101, C201).
In these positions Mundorf AG+ are top notch, film caps quality sound and a perfect timbre.
Those caps are different from all others since they address the same problem addressed by Black Gates with a different approach.
See BG patents for a more thorough explanation.
Soongsc,
Are you referring to when those moron recording engineers put the violins on the right, percussion in the middle and the basses wherever they want? Or are you describing something more electronically sophisticated. I'm aware of the phase test where polarity switching on one speaker's terminals (one produces more bass) when placed face to face, and I have the Audyssey checks incorporated into the Denon. Or are you talking about a complete 180 degree image swap.
In any event, I don't think we should go much further here unless you feel polarity can influence the operation of the Fremen Edition.
Dario,
Again,what specifically do you like about the Zns at C13 when compared to the Sinicaps? Have you tried any outboard configurations you like?
Are you referring to when those moron recording engineers put the violins on the right, percussion in the middle and the basses wherever they want? Or are you describing something more electronically sophisticated. I'm aware of the phase test where polarity switching on one speaker's terminals (one produces more bass) when placed face to face, and I have the Audyssey checks incorporated into the Denon. Or are you talking about a complete 180 degree image swap.
In any event, I don't think we should go much further here unless you feel polarity can influence the operation of the Fremen Edition.
Dario,
Again,what specifically do you like about the Zns at C13 when compared to the Sinicaps? Have you tried any outboard configurations you like?
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Sonicaps sounds incredibly musical but compared to DC-coupling they're clearly colored and they hide a not so small amount of detail.
Zns are the only caps, amoung the ones I've tried, that mantain the greatest part of detail and timbre.
When Tom tried Sonicaps he found that they were the ones that sounded best balanced with the original Ultimate BOM, and I do agree.
But, IMHO, they simply masked with their coloration some drawbacks of the original Ultimate BOM.
???
Those positions in the FE are SMD, why do you want to use THs?
BTW the recommended Susumus (R5,R6,R7,R9) are way better than PRPs
For R43 I'll do some tests in the next days.
I am just trying to identify a reference for listening impressions.Soongsc,
Are you referring to when those moron recording engineers put the violins on the right, percussion in the middle and the basses wherever they want? Or are you describing something more electronically sophisticated. I'm aware of the phase test where polarity switching on one speaker's terminals (one produces more bass) when placed face to face, and I have the Audyssey checks incorporated into the Denon. Or are you talking about a complete 180 degree image swap.
In any event, I don't think we should go much further here unless you feel polarity can influence the operation of the Fremen Edition.
...
I as well as many audiophiles hear a significant difference when swapping polarity (180 degree swap in both channels at the same time). Someone in Hong Kong did some listening through a few thousand CDs in his collection and sorted a polarity trend for various brands, which matches my experience.
Since you pointed out the exact albums you used, I just though it would be useful for me to know more about your listening impressions.
Basically, I have heard lots of people raving about the MyRef, and it took me significant modification to get it to where I felt was good. I hear raving again, so I am quite interested in knowing more about what all this excitement means for me to expect. Could be I am just looking for things different from all the rest of the DIY community.
Geeezzee Dario, Just when I thought I had everyone semi-impressed with my knowledge and expertise.......
I was just doing a quick comparison of the two BOMs and not looking at the boards - didn't even consider the SDM changes. OOops!
To further expose some clouds floating around in my head - remember, I'm a musician not a scientist - what are you talking about and what is the implementation path when a jumper is placed across C13? I thought that was the situation that required placing a cap somewhere in the signal path not attached to the PCB. At times it sounds like some builders see that as an optimum configuration. Have you designed an alternative approach in this application?
Confused In Michigan........
I was just doing a quick comparison of the two BOMs and not looking at the boards - didn't even consider the SDM changes. OOops!
To further expose some clouds floating around in my head - remember, I'm a musician not a scientist - what are you talking about and what is the implementation path when a jumper is placed across C13? I thought that was the situation that required placing a cap somewhere in the signal path not attached to the PCB. At times it sounds like some builders see that as an optimum configuration. Have you designed an alternative approach in this application?
Confused In Michigan........
Some builders get so obsessed with bypassing audio coupling capacitors with shorting links, they forget that usually there are other coupling capacitors in the system that maintain AC coupling and protect the output transducers.
Clave,
are you suggesting full DC coupling, or mixed AC & DC coupling, or AC coupling using a remote DC blocking capacitor in the output of the Source equipment?
Clave,
are you suggesting full DC coupling, or mixed AC & DC coupling, or AC coupling using a remote DC blocking capacitor in the output of the Source equipment?
It happens...
I don't support nor recommend DC-coupling the My_Ref, in this regard I'm strictly following Muaro's guidelines but for evaluation purposes may be useful to do it.
When I auditioned the various components for early BOMs I've DC-coupled it to rule out the input cap variable.
After components selection settled I've then compared the various input caps (Mundorf Zn, Mundorf white MCAP, Russian PET, Wima MKP10, Obbligatos, Sonicaps, Rifa PHE426, Rifa MMK and others) to DC-coupling to find the one that was more similar to it for both timbre, refinement and detail.
The Mundorf Zn was the clear winner.
(I've simplified a bit since I've redid it several times...)
Andrew, I'm still suggesting to keep the input cap of the My_Ref to keep protection near the power amp and to follow Mauro's recommendation.
Obviously if it's possible to avoid output coupling caps in the pre even better...
In fact I'm using the DCB1 as pre so the Mundorf Zn is the only coupling cap between it and the My_Ref.
Listening to Stravinsky's "Right of Spring" in 24/96K as I write. Somewhat edgy similar to the sound of the V1.3 before installing Siva's LF0-1. There is a lot going on in this piece, the placement is good but the definition could be more exact.
I cheated and installed the Mundorf AGs I had been using while awaiting delivery from Parts Conexxion, but am not sure if they need to readjust/reform on these amps. The bottom sounds fine on non torture-test music like this, but I was hoping for better. Maybe adding the Rinkens will let it respond better.
Again, this is only after a few hours of use.
Dario, did you see a need for significant burn-in for the Elna 50V/220uf caps at C1/C2?
I cheated and installed the Mundorf AGs I had been using while awaiting delivery from Parts Conexxion, but am not sure if they need to readjust/reform on these amps. The bottom sounds fine on non torture-test music like this, but I was hoping for better. Maybe adding the Rinkens will let it respond better.
Again, this is only after a few hours of use.
Dario, did you see a need for significant burn-in for the Elna 50V/220uf caps at C1/C2?
Soongsc, I have also heard significant improvements/differences just by reversing the RCAs of one component in a system - which appears to me as a form of audio slight-of -hand. We can persue the topic on the JRiver WICKI. In the tests I'm doing I have disabled all the DSP options so I can hear the FEs naked. To me, that's the best and most repeatable base for valid comparisons.
It really has nothing to do with Jriver. I am looking at your speakers/drivers, and reading your review trying to figure out what to expect with the FE using the linear power supply. Transformers make a hell of a difference, and other PS design issues is a totally different bag of worms to tackle. With the drivers of the speakers you mentioned, I would not have thought you would be hearing what you are describing, so I am guessing either the amp is acting similar to the MyRef I initially experienced, or I am not understanding your description correctly. That is the only reason I asked about the polarity. Generally there are certain characteristics that make polarity swaps less obvious. Since Jriver makes it relatively easy to swap (10 seconds maybe) without adding other effects, I just though I'd ask.
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It is hard to find a capacitor that will not degrade the sound so much, yet still be affordable and reasonably small. I might try to design some in the future. Factories can change material source without notice, so if the location is critical enough, I have to keep a reference and make measurements to prove they delivered something different.
Soongsc, It appears you are operating/designing at a level beyond what I am attempting to achieve. I respectfully, would agree with Dario that the best path for you might be to complete and test your PS configuration, your transformer selection and at least one FE, and then report the results. What you are doing is interesting and I'm sure valid. It may however, be to subjective and essentially preventative to progress for the general builder.
As the saying goes: "One should not ignore the Good while seeking the Perfect"
As the saying goes: "One should not ignore the Good while seeking the Perfect"
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I am trying to decide whether I want to try a linear PS. If there are indications that I should give it a try, I probably would. I currently focus on switching power and will be pulling out much of the linear PS section of the FE. But I am still reading about what's going on till I get to it.
Bob it's '' The Rite of spring'' and that has to be one of the most complex most
difficult music for any amp.Also check Dorati's ''Firebird'' 24 bit.The best recorded music i've heard. Keep up the good work!
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