Here we go again - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Chip Amps

Chip Amps Amplifiers based on integrated circuits

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th September 2003, 11:16 PM   #1
Sjef is offline Sjef  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Default Here we go again

I'm very interested in building a gainclone. As far as I can make up of the story's told most people prefer the inverted version with a buffer. Problem is, witch buffer will give the best sonic results for me.

Is the inverted clone realy that much better than the non-inverted. I can understand why the buffer helps a lot here. Stable feedback wich does'nt depend on volume control setting. In other words, much less feedback during normal listening. You don't have that problem with the non-inverted. I normally don't like any feedback or at leat as less as necesary . Forgive me, I'm a tube guy. But I can be wrong, who knows.

I've looked at Joe's tube buffered version but I'm a bit concerned about the ecc88 cathodefolower option. I'm building tube amps for years now and the ecc88 is one of the very worst sounding tubes I've come along. I also dislike cathode followers in tube amps. Can I be wrong in this case or does the buffered gainclone still have the sonic of an ecc88 cathodefollower ??

How about Pedja Jfet design ?? Could be even better than the ecc88. Anybody heard the difference ??

I could also use a BUF634 for instance, they are specially designed as a buffer and I find them better sounding than a OPA627 in unity gain in my cd player. Still a bit lean and cool sounding but in my case that's compensated with the bold and dynamic sound of the single ended preamp.

I was just wondering how a gainclone would compare to my single ended preamp and 300B power amps, that's the reason I want to build one and looking for the best possible option to give it a realy honest comparison.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2003, 03:24 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Peter Daniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Send a message via AIM to Peter Daniel
Why don't you built an IGC, and then add buffers (tube and SS) and decide for yourself what sounds best. I can only guess that it's really hard to answer your question directly and only you can decide what sounds best to you.

I've built few GC amps and I can assure you that depending on chassis type used, ea. amp will sound different. I have an all aluminum amp, all acrylic amp and wood/acrylic amp, but the first one still sounds the best. You can tweak the sound of the amp a lot by just using diffferent materials to build it. By adding buffers and filters you tweak it even more and somwhere in a process, you will find the most optimal approach. But you have to experiment. Good thing about it is the simplicity of design, so it doesn't take much effort.
__________________
www.audiosector.com
“Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2003, 08:16 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sofia
Quote:
I've looked at Joe's tube buffered version but I'm a bit concerned about the ecc88 cathodefolower option. I'm building tube amps for years now and the ecc88 is one of the very worst sounding tubes I've come along. I also dislike cathode followers in tube amps. Can I be wrong in this case or does the buffered gainclone still have the sonic of an ecc88 cathodefollower ??
The problem with the buffer fanatics is that most don't know zilch about valves. The buffer serves to mask other problems like cheap digital sources and add what they think is 'valve' flavour. You can also forget about the buf634 if you want to preserve the ability of the GC to sound exceptional. Imagine plucking a buf634 in front of your 300B! If you want and amp which will sound comparable to SET (just different set of compromises) build an IGC and experiment with the volume control position. I've had luck with two configurations - TVC feeding the IGC and valve line stage with the volume pot at input. Even if you use passive attenuator, removing an extra buffer stage with the extra PS and passive components will only sound better. And yes, i aslo hate an ecc88 cathode follower
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 02:02 PM   #4
Sjef is offline Sjef  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Amsterdam
What do you mean with a TVC ? feeding the IGC.
In the second option you use the IGC purely as a power amp isn't it ? In that case you don't have the problem with the volume depending feedback anymore. That could be the reason for a better sound I guess.

Have you also tried the non-inverting clone ??

I want to build a integrated amp, not a pre-power combination because I have lots of them allready. If the amp is really that good I'm planning to use it for my control monitors or in my kitchen setup.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 03:06 PM   #5
fedde is offline fedde  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Send a message via ICQ to fedde
I guess I'll try a non-inverted GC once. Our great example, the gaincard, sounds very well (and is NI). The advantages are a higher input impedance and I'd guess better stability. It remains to be seen what will sound the best. Potentially, the inverted GC has a lower distortion. But that advantage is lost completely if oscillation occurs...

Fedde
__________________
http://www.fedde.nu, gainclone and non-oversampling DAC audio projects and kits...
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2003, 04:03 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sofia
Of course i've tried non-inverting GC. Makes you wonder why the original GC is so succesful...I see the myth that the feedback path of the IGC somehow includes the volume control is still alive and well TVC stands for transformer volume control
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2003, 09:02 AM   #7
moamps is offline moamps  Croatia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Croatia
Default Re: Here we go again

Quote:
Originally posted by Sjef

I've looked at Joe's tube buffered version but I'm a bit concerned about the ecc88 cathodefolower option. I'm building tube amps for years now and the ecc88 is one of the very worst sounding tubes I've come along. I also dislike cathode followers in tube amps. Can I be wrong in this case or does the buffered gainclone still have the sonic of an ecc88 cathodefollower ??

I was just wondering how a gainclone would compare to my single ended preamp and 300B power amps, that's the reason I want to build one and looking for the best possible option to give it a realy honest comparison.
Hi,

I think that ECC88 buffer is better.IMHO
Vuki (member here) haves listening experience with JFET buffer and my ecc88 buffer, also hates followers, also haves 300B amp, ask him.

Regards
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2003, 10:04 PM   #8
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Default Re: Here we go again

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by Sjef
Problem is, witch buffer will give the best sonic results for me.
Witch Buffer? Hmmm, try Eye of Newt, St John the Conquerer Root, Bat's Blood & Bat's Heart and Gopher Dust (proper Gopher Dust). Mix nicely at new moon....

This should buffer Witches (and Warlocks) jolly well....

But why do you ask?

Sayonara
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:52 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2