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Old 11th July 2003, 12:01 AM   #71
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Default Addendum to basic intellectual property rules

Even if a design, marque or image is not copyrighted, trademarked or otherwise legally protected, others may still be prevented from using it commercially since it has been associated with the owner for a long time. This is rare but has been known to happen.

One possible example of this is the big "B" shaped ribbon used by the Hudson's Bay Company. As one of the world's oldest (if not the oldest) surviving firms, it probably no longer needs to register the logo as a trademark. It may never have.

If it had offered the GC in its current form (double brick with two connecting slabs) for a number of years or decades continuously without changes, then 47 Lab might have a grandfather clause on the shape. Since they haven't, this approach is unlikely to stand up in a legal setting. Once again, check your lawyer as YMMV.

Peter, don't be scared off by the naysayers. The sharks are your best advisors now. If they are iffy, then change it. If not, don't. If you think acrylic is better anyway, why not change now. Then your unit will be superior in every way.

I hope you can prove that those who can't, complain and those who do... retire.

:)ensen.
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Old 11th July 2003, 05:41 AM   #72
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Default Re: Re: Industrial Design

Quote:
Originally posted by jh6you
JH said:

"I wish Peter Daniel a success! Nevertheless, I would like to recommend a new unique design. These days, the unique industrial design could be a victory or a defeat. Good luck."

ANd another said:
"Still, It seems silly that someone with your design and construction skills would not come up with a more unique look.
You knew this would be an issue, and I guess figured the advantages outweighed the dis. But as a designer also, my advice is you should have more faith in your ability to do something better."
I am an Industrial Designer. We do have a reason for existing. I know that an I.D. consultant may not be in the budget as this is a garage adventure gone commercial. I applaud the commercialization but clearly Peter's skill set here mainly is in fabrication and electronics not Industrial Design. But the guy is such a multi-talented SOB that most everything he does looks good too. But the case could have used a bit of originality. The state of Audio Industrial Design is worth another thread. What is it supposed to look like? Clean unadorned boxes are NOT form follows function. If it were it would look like the crazy tube amps with things exposed, etc. It is minimalist and Modernist and that aesthetic has a history in the design of architecture, etc. Get a student designer at the Ontario College of Art to give you a hand if nothing else. But overall I wish you all the best and thanks for your contributons to this forum which has resulted in my own GC. I should talk about design tho'. Mine looks like an unadorned NAD box(yeah even more unadorned than a NAD). Pictures soon but try to stay awake when you see them.
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Old 11th July 2003, 06:45 AM   #73
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I've been re-reading the thread and a couple of things have really bothered me.

To Peter: I'm sorry for the flak you're getting about the case. I'm an industrial designer too and sometimes I think the whole field is just a bunch of elitists who think nobody else know anything about design. For this, Peter, I apologize.

To the other designers: Peter has already said this was a design study. He wanted to know if it could be done. It was the equivalent of a class project. You have no idea what level or range his design skills are at. He could very well be designing the next enclosure to be copied and mimicked by the rest. Don't assume!

To carlosfm: You are right to say that various patents have been granted for frivolous things. But before you pass judgement, your honour, let me tell you, the USPTO is fighting my employer really hard for our patent application and so I have to assume that even the "ridiculous" patents have been argued over... a lot! It's cost our company about $60K for that last 3 years and we are still about another year out from a final decision. If 47 Lab owns any of the prior art (aka granted patents), Danielsan can have a pretty serious legal wrangle ahead. Heck, if anybody else owns a patent that might cover the work, the price of could be ownership of the overall design, the circuit, profits and even penalties just for infringement. It is best to check now before any actual sales have occurred so as to make the necessary manuevers.

:)ensen.
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Old 11th July 2003, 09:50 AM   #74
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Default Come on...

Quote:
Originally posted by jh6you

So, when you buy a new car (and audio), you don't care of the design at all...?!?!

Why motor companies put their all means to hide their prototype designs?
JH
Of course I care about the design, it's the most important thing.
You didn't understand, man.
I was refering to the general aspect of a car these days.
Until, say, the 40s-50s, each car was unique and immediately recognizable.
A Beetle will always be a Beetle and a Mini will always be a Mini.
If you see a car passing on the other end of the street you'll have some difficulty in recognizing if it's a Corsa, a Fiesta or a Punto.
Looking at a distace they all look the same.
You were making incorrect assumptions from what I said, because if I buy a car I really like to know what I'm buying.
You would'n whant to discuss mechanics with me, and this is not the right place.
Do you know how to tune a carb, or you were born in the "injection" age?
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Old 11th July 2003, 10:34 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by carlosfm

Of course I care about the design, it's the most important thing.
You didn't understand, man.
...
Carlos

I think that the most important thing in audio is the sound quality
and the 2nd one is the cosmetic design, and then others follow.

Here is my point. Peter Daniel's amplifier should remind me (or us)
of Peter Daniel, not others, and of course it should provide a nice
look.

You would'n whant to discuss mechanics with me, ...
No, I don't want to discuss mechanics with you in this thread.

JH
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Old 11th July 2003, 02:48 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplepeople
I've been re-reading the thread and a couple of things have really bothered me.

To Peter: I'm sorry for the flak you're getting about the case. I'm an industrial designer too and sometimes I think the whole field is just a bunch of elitists who think nobody else know anything about design. For this, Peter, I apologize.

To the other designers: Peter has already said this was a design study. He wanted to know if it could be done. It was the equivalent of a class project. You have no idea what level or range his design skills are at. He could very well be designing the next enclosure to be copied and mimicked by the rest. Don't assume!

To carlosfm: You are right to say that various patents have been granted for frivolous things. But before you pass judgement, your honour, let me tell you, the USPTO is fighting my employer really hard for our patent application and so I have to assume that even the "ridiculous" patents have been argued over... a lot! It's cost our company about $60K for that last 3 years and we are still about another year out from a final decision. If 47 Lab owns any of the prior art (aka granted patents), Danielsan can have a pretty serious legal wrangle ahead. Heck, if anybody else owns a patent that might cover the work, the price of could be ownership of the overall design, the circuit, profits and even penalties just for infringement. It is best to check now before any actual sales have occurred so as to make the necessary manuevers.

ensen.

Don't apologize for me you *****.
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Old 11th July 2003, 11:21 PM   #77
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Sitting in front of me is the march 2002 copy of HiFi News. n it is a group test of phono stages including the Camelot Technologies Lancelot Pro.

This evil device is dainty, black, has white graphics on the front panel, has an outboard power supply and has a chassis comprised of 2 black boxes with a space in between, linked only by the front and rear panels. (which incedentaly is praised in the review as being sound engineering practice)

Being a phono stage it uses a different circuit topology to the gaincard but it's quite obviously just a cheap attempt at cashing in.

GIVE ME A BREAK

Peters amp looks nothing like a gaincard any more than Coplands kind of taller than you feel is ideal silver fronted valve power amps with silver knobs on each side of the front look like AudioNotes kinda taller than you feel is ideal black fronted valve power amps with brass knobs on either side of the front.

The styling cues are different, the finishes are different, the topology is different, the feet are different, the main chip is also different IIRC. He's done his own componentry testing over a long period of time. They aint the same amps and neither of them is trying to be.

Let it rest huh?

drew
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