Peter, well done!
To be honest, I can understand some of the sentiments on pricing. But, having tried this route also once, I KNOW how much effort and money you need to put in, before having the foggiest idea that you get anything back. Then, if the train starts rolling in earnest, so will your expenses!
In that light, I think the price is entirely reasonable, and I hope you sell a ton of it. Looking forward to your next creation.
Jan Didden
To be honest, I can understand some of the sentiments on pricing. But, having tried this route also once, I KNOW how much effort and money you need to put in, before having the foggiest idea that you get anything back. Then, if the train starts rolling in earnest, so will your expenses!
In that light, I think the price is entirely reasonable, and I hope you sell a ton of it. Looking forward to your next creation.
Jan Didden
There's a man with a soldering iron in his hand!
Peter,
You may already cover this but I do not think it will hurt for me to mention it here I hope. Regarding the warranty that AMP-1 provide how do you ensure there is no denied lose soldering iron at work and return to you after the warranty coverage to clean up or replace then faulty parts(expensive ones)?
again congrates
Chris
Peter,
You may already cover this but I do not think it will hurt for me to mention it here I hope. Regarding the warranty that AMP-1 provide how do you ensure there is no denied lose soldering iron at work and return to you after the warranty coverage to clean up or replace then faulty parts(expensive ones)?
again congrates
Chris
Do you mean that there might be a loose solder joint after 10 years, and then what happens?
Currently I'm doing soldering myself and after first applying solder, I wet all joints with reisin and resolder again. This provides not only for a better looking job, but also more reliable.
We were also thinking about mounting 2 spare chips on a front panel (on the inside), so in case someone needs a chip replaced after few years, they would be still available (inside the amp)
Currently I'm doing soldering myself and after first applying solder, I wet all joints with reisin and resolder again. This provides not only for a better looking job, but also more reliable.
We were also thinking about mounting 2 spare chips on a front panel (on the inside), so in case someone needs a chip replaced after few years, they would be still available (inside the amp)
Chances are very good that there will never be a problem, as long as it is soldered well in the first place. Have you ever tried soldering up an assembly with the chip/resistors/caps and potting it in epoxy? It would guarantee that you would not have a broken lead in the future, and would also damp out resonances in the assembly.
It's still a risk, such a long guarantee! Though I think that all amplifiers should at LEAST work without maintenance for this period!
Did you try a torture test on your amp Peter !? So an extended period of high power sine waves and music ? Once, I managed to kill one opamp by very loud music. (LTJ Bukem, Intense CD, Live jungle with very much BASS). But my opamps were not properly cooled in that case. It would be a pity if you have to repair your amps every time that the owner has had a party...
Fedde
Did you try a torture test on your amp Peter !? So an extended period of high power sine waves and music ? Once, I managed to kill one opamp by very loud music. (LTJ Bukem, Intense CD, Live jungle with very much BASS). But my opamps were not properly cooled in that case. It would be a pity if you have to repair your amps every time that the owner has had a party...
Fedde
No Peter,
What I meant was there are many types of human being in this crazy world nowadays. Certain types might try modifing job to the amp themselves and may be slimmy enough to use the warranty to cover their mistakes...so they buy the amp try it , tweak it and then say it is faulty etc etc...
Chris
What I meant was there are many types of human being in this crazy world nowadays. Certain types might try modifing job to the amp themselves and may be slimmy enough to use the warranty to cover their mistakes...so they buy the amp try it , tweak it and then say it is faulty etc etc...
Chris
I will always support tweaking. And if they find a better way to implement the circuit, I hope they'll let me know
I will probably notice if anybody tried to resolder my joints when unit is sent for warranty service. The same can be also applied to trying modify PCB assembly. We could go as far as try to spray everything, so any tampering with the original circuit is visible. But we won't.
As to the potting, I did it before, but I don't think it's a way to go. Beside even heat distribution I don't think it has any other advantages and it probably degrades the sonics by overdamping the circuit.
I will probably notice if anybody tried to resolder my joints when unit is sent for warranty service. The same can be also applied to trying modify PCB assembly. We could go as far as try to spray everything, so any tampering with the original circuit is visible. But we won't.
As to the potting, I did it before, but I don't think it's a way to go. Beside even heat distribution I don't think it has any other advantages and it probably degrades the sonics by overdamping the circuit.
Peter, think carefully.
We all hope you sell lots of these, but have you plans in place in case you sell say 10 or 20 a week? Can you manage that?
Ten years guarantee is commendable, but say the average failure rate is 5 years (these amps will face real abuse in the hands of "typical users". In time it will get better, because you will start to see the weak points and will improve on that).
After selling 100 pieces, you are faced with 20 failures per year, a couple per month. When you sell 500, and they fail on average after 5 years, you will have to provide free repairs for 2 per week. There is a reason that the average industry guarantee is just one or two years.
Just trying to make you aware that this is very different than building a couple of amps for your friends.
Jan Didden
We all hope you sell lots of these, but have you plans in place in case you sell say 10 or 20 a week? Can you manage that?
Ten years guarantee is commendable, but say the average failure rate is 5 years (these amps will face real abuse in the hands of "typical users". In time it will get better, because you will start to see the weak points and will improve on that).
After selling 100 pieces, you are faced with 20 failures per year, a couple per month. When you sell 500, and they fail on average after 5 years, you will have to provide free repairs for 2 per week. There is a reason that the average industry guarantee is just one or two years.
Just trying to make you aware that this is very different than building a couple of amps for your friends.
Jan Didden
With 10 years warranty we try to gain marketing edge over the competition. Only the future will show how it works out. But I also remember that Bryston offers (or offered) 20 years warranty.
If the product goes through the distributor, the terms of warranty might change. 10 years is only our initial offer.
Here's example from PassLabs manual:
Warranty Information
This product is warranted for parts and labor from the date we ship it. Check with the factory
authorized distributor in the country you are purchasing this product for specific warranty
information.
Distributors are only required to offer warranty service on Pass products that they have sold.
They are not obligated to offer warranty repair for products purchased from other distributors.
Products purchased from other distributors should be returned to the country of purchase for
warranty repair.
If the product goes through the distributor, the terms of warranty might change. 10 years is only our initial offer.
Here's example from PassLabs manual:
Warranty Information
This product is warranted for parts and labor from the date we ship it. Check with the factory
authorized distributor in the country you are purchasing this product for specific warranty
information.
Distributors are only required to offer warranty service on Pass products that they have sold.
They are not obligated to offer warranty repair for products purchased from other distributors.
Products purchased from other distributors should be returned to the country of purchase for
warranty repair.
Interesting... I didn't know you could overdamp something like that. Is the problem that you are raising the resonant frequency with the potting? It would be really great if you could write up some of your ideas on damping and proper chassis design. I know you are busy (or will be very soon), but I think there are a lot of people that would like to read something like that.
As far as the failure rate of the circuit, etc. goes- the only problems I can imagine with these amps would be 1. initial quality problems (not likely!) 2. The capacitors not living the whole 10 years (you never know... I have a Marantz receiver at home that is 20+ years old with original caps, still works great) 3. problems with oscillation / instability due to interface/cabling issues (documentation will need to state possible issues with too long of speaker cables, etc.).
The chip, with it's built-in protection, pretty much guarantees that no one will melt one down with abuse. The user will definitely hear it if they push it too far! I think the design is pretty durable, and a good safe bet.
As far as the failure rate of the circuit, etc. goes- the only problems I can imagine with these amps would be 1. initial quality problems (not likely!) 2. The capacitors not living the whole 10 years (you never know... I have a Marantz receiver at home that is 20+ years old with original caps, still works great) 3. problems with oscillation / instability due to interface/cabling issues (documentation will need to state possible issues with too long of speaker cables, etc.).
The chip, with it's built-in protection, pretty much guarantees that no one will melt one down with abuse. The user will definitely hear it if they push it too far! I think the design is pretty durable, and a good safe bet.
There were few threads about potting:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...ghlight=potting
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...ghlight=potting
and usually the opinion was that potting is not a good thing sonically. Good example is comparison between regular and 'nude' Vishays or reading the review of Sumiko Blue Point and Blue Point Special cartridge (which has its plastic body removed).
I myself didn't do much experimentation with potting and it's only my assumption that it may not be actually preferrable.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...ghlight=potting
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...ghlight=potting
and usually the opinion was that potting is not a good thing sonically. Good example is comparison between regular and 'nude' Vishays or reading the review of Sumiko Blue Point and Blue Point Special cartridge (which has its plastic body removed).
I myself didn't do much experimentation with potting and it's only my assumption that it may not be actually preferrable.
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