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Old 18th June 2003, 10:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raka

Well, we are distracting the subject, that was to check if anyone has AB'd any gainclone.
Yes, sorry, this could degenerate to a copy of the "Blind listening tests and amplifiers" thread.

I don't think that anyone has done that.
You had to make two exactly equal Gainclones, and then change one component on one of them and make an A/B test.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, when people make another one, they try to better it and then it's not exactly equal.
Maby I'm wrong and someone has done two exactly equal Gainclones.
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:36 AM   #12
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It hasn't to be between two Gainclones, my original idea was to check if anyone has compared Gainclone and any other amp, including crappy blocks as my sony.
The test you describe can be useful to test components (I said "can" not "must" in purpose

No one does AB, not even as a second opinion?
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Old 18th June 2003, 10:38 AM   #13
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Carlos

Peter Daniel routinely does this with his GCs. So does Jonathan Carr. I personally would prefer changing one component at a time inside a single unit as there is too much variation between seemingly identical components in whole amps.

Raka

I have attended several violin makers competitions and have been fascinated by the difference in violin sound. Bad violins sometimes exhibit a sound i've always associated (probably wrongly) with high IMD
Interestingly, proffesional musicians are rarely obsessing about reproduced sound...
May i ask what comprises your system? I don't think a very sophisticated system is essential to perceive sound differences between amps or cables. What is more important is that the system is simple - not too many redundant amp stages, no real bad opamps and most importantly - speakers with simple crossovers.
Looking at the very distant past once i had a NAD3020 a pair of Cerwin Vega HED and a Pioneer turntable with Ortofon MC10 cart i never had problems hearing difference between cables/support etc. The speakers that were most revealing of differences were a pair of Lowther horns but they grew to be so painful on my ears that we had to part company.

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Old 18th June 2003, 11:00 AM   #14
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My system?

Well, I have a DENON 1801amp, and the thorsten gainclone. As source I use mainly a TD160Mk1 +rega250+coralMC88 with a dedicated power supply (but I think you know that story ) and a DVD Pioneer 525 as CD player (using the analog output as it sounds better than the Denon DAC. As speakers, I use advance acoustic MA11e (1st order) with cat 5 TNT cables that work well. The MA11 are tweaked, because I changed the woofer to a Beyma that kicked the *** of the french. Yes, I know that is not so easy, I checked that the crossover is still almost valid, I was really lucky!!. Yep, many variables were checked and the crossover was still applicable.
The interconnects are standard, and the phono stage is the ESP project06 with NE5532.
I don't know wich is the weakest, but the reallity showed yesterday was crude.

Analog,

Have you spent 8 hours a day trying to get the damn passage in tune with the correct sound, and shades, and dynamics, and tempo, and phrasing, and style and listening to the complete picture with the others musicians? Then you don't know why musicians are so easy to tell jokes. And it doesn't have to be about viola players

Do you AB? Only with lovers...
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:07 AM   #15
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I think you guys forget one thing: If my eye likes what it sees it's an advantage. Visual impressions are very important. If we have a black box, it's more difficult to pick the difference.
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa
Carlos

Peter Daniel routinely does this with his GCs. So does Jonathan Carr. I personally would prefer changing one component at a time inside a single unit as there is too much variation between seemingly identical components in whole amps.

Yes, but he doesn't do A/B tests.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Peter.

Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa

Interestingly, proffesional musicians are rarely obsessing about reproduced sound...
Yes, but they are very picky about the instrument they play.
And when they buy and instrument they whant the best, and they always hear it.
But then they may hear to music on a boombox.
There are some few professional musicians that are also audio fanactics, though.
Neil Young never liked the sound of CDs, he prefers vinyl.
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:19 AM   #17
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Raka

Very interesting. Your system certainly seems to make the grade. What are you using for system support? Very old/bad mains wiring? Surely you know others in your city where you can compare amps. Due mostly to simplicity i would imagine a GC to sound very different to a Denon. What kind of topology does the Denon use? Discretes?

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Old 18th June 2003, 11:35 AM   #18
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Peter,

the mains wiring is not old, but how can be bad a mains wiring?
The denon is an A/V amp, and has a discrete topology. The differences between them were that the denon seemed very slightly compressed and cavernous. But I insist, very, very small differences once the level is adjusted equally. I will try to rewire the gainclone, but not very enthusiastically. I wish it was a better amp, because it's so cheap and fun...

I still can't believe that no one has AB'd a gainclone.
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:53 AM   #19
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Raka,
Some internal pictures of your GC would be nice.
We could see if there's something wrong, or something that can be bettered.
It should give the Denon a run for it's money, believe me.
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Old 18th June 2003, 11:54 AM   #20
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Raka

I seldom get very excited about an amp but the GC is well worth the excitement. It delivers probably 80% of my SET PX25 at 1/10 of both the weight and cost. A friend who's only into valves and has a very nicelly tweaked 2A3/45/10Y (depending on his mood ) had a listen to a very simple first edition GC in his system against his amp and was very impressed.
I have lived and listened to music in quite a few houses/flats. The sound at every place understandably differs. Some, though, are simply not meant for music, ie getting anything to sound decent at some places is almost impossible. Don't know if it's acoustic properties, really bad mains wire, mains pollution, structural vibrations or anything else but some places are simply cursed. Mains power quality is often suspected.
Well, i seem to have run out of ideas. Maybe your Denon uses 3875 outputs

chers
peter
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