Let me say first off that I haven't used a monolithic power chip for any serious audio work ever... it's always always been discrete.
So an easy question... could you realistically compare (sonically I mean... not on paper specs) a chip amp with any discrete amp that is considered a top performer in it's class.
If you could do a double blind/triple blind/whatever listening test and you didn't know what you were listening to... could the chip amp come out on top ? ... if the design was right.
So an easy question... could you realistically compare (sonically I mean... not on paper specs) a chip amp with any discrete amp that is considered a top performer in it's class.
If you could do a double blind/triple blind/whatever listening test and you didn't know what you were listening to... could the chip amp come out on top ? ... if the design was right.
Candidates;
1. Self-built Chipamp with maxed out components - Black Gates, Holcos, huge transformer vs.
2. Jaton Operetta, a PA-100 design base with a stonking 2KVA transformer vs.
3 Self-built F5 clone with the standard Tech-DIY kit, open chassis, 150 VA transformers - not a single exotic part anywhere.
Speakers: Usher Mini-Dancer Beryllium, source: Buffalo DAC and PC transport.
The F5 simply stomped the other two into the dust. Make no mistake, the chipamps are very good, much better than commercial amps and receivers under $1000 (The operetta is a very good amp in its right). But they were simply no match for the F5 across the board - even though on paper they probably had better specs. The only thing the F5 didn't do was gain, so on some really high-quality recordings you could not really hear anything at all. Probably more sensitive speakers are called for.
Anyway the F5 had a sweeter, more dynamic sound, and developed a very solid bottom end. We also had a chance to test out the $3000 Leben CS300 tube amp, and it had better midrange than the F5, but got beaten everywhere else.
1. Self-built Chipamp with maxed out components - Black Gates, Holcos, huge transformer vs.
2. Jaton Operetta, a PA-100 design base with a stonking 2KVA transformer vs.
3 Self-built F5 clone with the standard Tech-DIY kit, open chassis, 150 VA transformers - not a single exotic part anywhere.
Speakers: Usher Mini-Dancer Beryllium, source: Buffalo DAC and PC transport.
The F5 simply stomped the other two into the dust. Make no mistake, the chipamps are very good, much better than commercial amps and receivers under $1000 (The operetta is a very good amp in its right). But they were simply no match for the F5 across the board - even though on paper they probably had better specs. The only thing the F5 didn't do was gain, so on some really high-quality recordings you could not really hear anything at all. Probably more sensitive speakers are called for.
Anyway the F5 had a sweeter, more dynamic sound, and developed a very solid bottom end. We also had a chance to test out the $3000 Leben CS300 tube amp, and it had better midrange than the F5, but got beaten everywhere else.
Thanks for your comparisons... that's just the kind of info I'm after. I don't think Nelson will getting worried then
I quite fancy seeing just what can be done with TDA7293, possibly in two's or three's for driving lowish impedance loads.
As I say, I've never built or listened to a chip amp.
Thanks
I quite fancy seeing just what can be done with TDA7293, possibly in two's or three's for driving lowish impedance loads.
As I say, I've never built or listened to a chip amp.
Thanks
That is the question yes
So can it... if it's applied with a view to "out and out" sonics rather than best on paper spec ?
Be interesting to find out perhaps.
Competes well
My proprietary high gain 3886 chip amp competes (according to many others who have listened) well at the $3000 level for a stereo amp. Has 225dB gain at DC and 125dB gain at 10kHz. Vanishingly small distortion. Also features a second order DC servo loop and absolute stability with no output coil or RC network to make it safe or stable. Will drive any load with the correct power supply. Have used them below one ohm on low voltage power supply and worked flawlessly.
My proprietary high gain 3886 chip amp competes (according to many others who have listened) well at the $3000 level for a stereo amp. Has 225dB gain at DC and 125dB gain at 10kHz. Vanishingly small distortion. Also features a second order DC servo loop and absolute stability with no output coil or RC network to make it safe or stable. Will drive any load with the correct power supply. Have used them below one ohm on low voltage power supply and worked flawlessly.
poeple have wrapped a op amp gain stage around a chip amp - compensation is fun!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip...-ultralow-distortion-chipamp.html#post1575290
other ideas include push-pull Class A biasing of 2 parallel chip amps
or just a limited output bias "Displacer"
I belive Linn sold a 3 chip/channel paralled tda729x amp for > $3K
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip...-ultralow-distortion-chipamp.html#post1575290
other ideas include push-pull Class A biasing of 2 parallel chip amps
or just a limited output bias "Displacer"
I belive Linn sold a 3 chip/channel paralled tda729x amp for > $3K
You can doubt it all you want be that is the fact. This is part of the reason it works so well. Composite amplifier.
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my 3886 chip amp
AV=+20 or 26dB gain with feedback. Yes 100dB of feedback at 10kHz. "If your going to use feedback more is better so most is best." quote of John Gordon Iverson. In that vain this amp has a ton of feedback and gain. Works far better than it has any right to and is stable into any kind of load. I could barely get it to ring part of one cycle driving .1µF or .5µF load with 20kHz square wave and no resistance. Full power bandwidth is 110kHz.
AV=+20 or 26dB gain with feedback. Yes 100dB of feedback at 10kHz. "If your going to use feedback more is better so most is best." quote of John Gordon Iverson. In that vain this amp has a ton of feedback and gain. Works far better than it has any right to and is stable into any kind of load. I could barely get it to ring part of one cycle driving .1µF or .5µF load with 20kHz square wave and no resistance. Full power bandwidth is 110kHz.
Well that's not serious audio is it lol
OK I'll come clean... over the years I have repaired countless "grot boxes" and "Grumpstrads" etc with there TDA2030's and STK"yet another version" etc etc.
But I have never built a chip amp or listened to a good commercial one.
I suspect a lot has to do with the implementation... and using and employing the device "sympathetically" as I like to call it.
Which it sounds like you have done
You're posting in the chip amp lovers forum, what kind of answer do you think you're going to get?
I suppose I could always ask in the, hmmmm, cough, Pass Labs forum
Composite amp. Oldest trick in the book. I looked into doing something similar. It can certainly be done, but compensation becomes a major challenge as the amp will not be stable at a closed loop gain of 20 V/V with simple resistive feedback. It's nice to see that someone had the same idea and made it work. Nice work! Could you show some measurement results?
~Tom
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