Hi,
I have a marantz pm-66se amp driving some eltax monitor 3 speakers , it worked ok at first but the amp's been dying for a while so I decided to build a new one! seemed like a nice project, I've not done much soldering before but it looked fairly simple so off I went....
i ordered the ' LM3886 Stereo Chip Amplifier PCB Set' from madaboutsound.co.uk then sourced all the other components from Farnell, I have enough resistors for about 25 amps now but I digress..
I've just finished soldering the PCBs and though I'd post them up here and hopefully if I've made any glaring errors someone will spot them!
I'll link the images as they're pretty big:
amp board
psu 1
psu 2
I haven't ordered a transformer yet, I wasn't 100% sure what VA rating I needed - I understand 300VA will cope with everything, but to drive just these small speakers could I get away with a 160 or 225VA trans? the speakers are rated at 4-8 ohms (weird?) 'music power' 150w and 'nominal power' 90w. I was planning to order the 22v one, seems a safe middle ground.
I was also hoping to re-use some of the bits from my marantz amp, case, power switch, speaker posts/RCA inputs, maybe the volume pot if it's suitable (i'm going without volume at first for simplicity). this was meant to be a budget build although I'm up to around £100 already, lets hope it works!
any input would be appreciated, i'm a complete noob at this!
Kieran
I have a marantz pm-66se amp driving some eltax monitor 3 speakers , it worked ok at first but the amp's been dying for a while so I decided to build a new one! seemed like a nice project, I've not done much soldering before but it looked fairly simple so off I went....
i ordered the ' LM3886 Stereo Chip Amplifier PCB Set' from madaboutsound.co.uk then sourced all the other components from Farnell, I have enough resistors for about 25 amps now but I digress..
I've just finished soldering the PCBs and though I'd post them up here and hopefully if I've made any glaring errors someone will spot them!
I'll link the images as they're pretty big:
amp board
psu 1
psu 2
I haven't ordered a transformer yet, I wasn't 100% sure what VA rating I needed - I understand 300VA will cope with everything, but to drive just these small speakers could I get away with a 160 or 225VA trans? the speakers are rated at 4-8 ohms (weird?) 'music power' 150w and 'nominal power' 90w. I was planning to order the 22v one, seems a safe middle ground.
I was also hoping to re-use some of the bits from my marantz amp, case, power switch, speaker posts/RCA inputs, maybe the volume pot if it's suitable (i'm going without volume at first for simplicity). this was meant to be a budget build although I'm up to around £100 already, lets hope it works!
any input would be appreciated, i'm a complete noob at this!
Kieran
I've just stripped the old amp and I think I have a better idea about why it wasn't working right - some of the magic smoke escaped!
This is the old transformer but I can't find out anything about it, or get a voltage reading from it.... I don't think it'll be any use sadly, unless anyone knows otherwise? it's heavy!
Heatsinks, could use one or both, i'll probably go with both for peace of mind.
Volume pot, 50k i think, seems to have 6 pins, was motorised so i'll have to strip it apart when I get a solder sucker.
speaker/RCA terminals, simple enough i hope!
This is the old transformer but I can't find out anything about it, or get a voltage reading from it.... I don't think it'll be any use sadly, unless anyone knows otherwise? it's heavy!
Heatsinks, could use one or both, i'll probably go with both for peace of mind.
Volume pot, 50k i think, seems to have 6 pins, was motorised so i'll have to strip it apart when I get a solder sucker.
speaker/RCA terminals, simple enough i hope!
A 2 x 22 V transformer is okay for 8 Ohm speakers. Try not to use more than 2 x 20 V with 4 Ohm speakers. Anything above 120 VA will do. More then 300 VA is a waste. Between these two numbers there may lie a sound improvement, but may just as well not. Depends on the transformer quality, the speakers and your hearing.
The link to the heatsinks does not work for me, but if you want to drive 4 Ohm speakers, each IC should have a heatsink with less than 1,5 K/W.
The link to the heatsinks does not work for me, but if you want to drive 4 Ohm speakers, each IC should have a heatsink with less than 1,5 K/W.
eltax monitor 3's, as above. nothing special but they do the job. 4-8 ohms is what it says on the back, with a bit of looking it looks like their sensitivity is 89Db. is that any use?Puffin said:
pacificblue said:
how can i get a more accurate figure for the rating of the speakers?
here's the product page
The link to the heatsinks does not work for me, but if you want to drive 4 Ohm speakers, each IC should have a heatsink with less than 1,5 K/W. [/QUOTE]
Heatsinks
i can't seem to edit my original post....
gah moderation... lame
I found a PDF with some more info about the speakers:
http://www.wolseleymedia.com.au/ignitionsuite/uploads/docs/EltaxHFJan08.pdf
"The impedance modulus drops to around
4.2-ohms at 200Hz but stays so high over the
majority of the audio band that I’d classify
this as technically a 5-ohm design, though
it will appear to a driving amplifier as a
6-ohm design"
I found a PDF with some more info about the speakers:
http://www.wolseleymedia.com.au/ignitionsuite/uploads/docs/EltaxHFJan08.pdf
"The impedance modulus drops to around
4.2-ohms at 200Hz but stays so high over the
majority of the audio band that I’d classify
this as technically a 5-ohm design, though
it will appear to a driving amplifier as a
6-ohm design"
Sorry, I forgot to say I suffer from word blindness and stupidity, so make of this reply what you will!
No seriously. Unless you can identify the primary windings (i.e the 230v input) you will not be able to measure the voltages on the secondarys. I use transformers with 2x25v secondarys 180va. These should be fine for your speakers. I have heard Eltax speakers and am not a big fan. You can do sooooo much better for not much more money.
The 50k pot should be fine. You need to identify the pins. Most pots (looking at the pins with the pot upside down) are from the left :- LFront = Lin, Lrear = Rin, MidFront = Lout, Mid Rear = Rout
Right Front & Rear are the ground pins
No seriously. Unless you can identify the primary windings (i.e the 230v input) you will not be able to measure the voltages on the secondarys. I use transformers with 2x25v secondarys 180va. These should be fine for your speakers. I have heard Eltax speakers and am not a big fan. You can do sooooo much better for not much more money.
The 50k pot should be fine. You need to identify the pins. Most pots (looking at the pins with the pot upside down) are from the left :- LFront = Lin, Lrear = Rin, MidFront = Lout, Mid Rear = Rout
Right Front & Rear are the ground pins
It looks like the Eltax uses a 5 or 6ohm bass/mid driver and an 8ohm, or higher, treble driver. This arrangement has become very common in the recent past. It allows the amp to deliver more power to the less sensitive bass/mid driver.
However, the 89dB is probably 89dB/2.8V/m.
The amplifier must be designed as if it were driving a 5 or 6ohm speaker.
Another advantage of the Eltax is the moderate phase of the load it presents, it looks as though it never exceeds +-40degrees.
Is there a chance you might want the amp to drive a different speaker?
Do you want/need to design for 4ohm speakers?
You just might get away with 240:22Vac transformer for 6ohm speakers, but 230:22Vac is stressing the chip even higher.
I would recommend an 18Vac or 20Vac transformer for your chipamp.
Two channels @ 60W requires a transformer between 120VA and 240VA. I would go towards the higher end of that range.
However, the 89dB is probably 89dB/2.8V/m.
The amplifier must be designed as if it were driving a 5 or 6ohm speaker.
Another advantage of the Eltax is the moderate phase of the load it presents, it looks as though it never exceeds +-40degrees.
Is there a chance you might want the amp to drive a different speaker?
Do you want/need to design for 4ohm speakers?
You just might get away with 240:22Vac transformer for 6ohm speakers, but 230:22Vac is stressing the chip even higher.
I would recommend an 18Vac or 20Vac transformer for your chipamp.
Two channels @ 60W requires a transformer between 120VA and 240VA. I would go towards the higher end of that range.
thank you everyone for your replies, as I say I'm a complete novice at this, as long as I end up with an amp that works in some capacity by the end of this i'll be happy!
i'm not wanting it to be the best amp ever built, just something to start from. i can always replace stuff later if i want to take it further. it'll only really be for me to listen to music with at my desk so I won't really be pushing the maximum power output.
if it'll be safer i'll go with an 18V transformer, probably 160VA
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/...pen-style-toroidal-transformer-with-leads.asp
I have no plan to upgrade the speakers right now, i'm pretty skint and as I say, the amp's already ended up being a little more expensive than expected but I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility that i replace them at some point - what will i need to bear in mind if i do?
thanks again,
Kieran
i'm not wanting it to be the best amp ever built, just something to start from. i can always replace stuff later if i want to take it further. it'll only really be for me to listen to music with at my desk so I won't really be pushing the maximum power output.
if it'll be safer i'll go with an 18V transformer, probably 160VA
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/...pen-style-toroidal-transformer-with-leads.asp
I have no plan to upgrade the speakers right now, i'm pretty skint and as I say, the amp's already ended up being a little more expensive than expected but I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility that i replace them at some point - what will i need to bear in mind if i do?
thanks again,
Kieran
Puffin said:
Nice, one of these?
18V+18V 160VA TORODIAL TRAN (12062) (RC)
works out about £10 cheaper than airlink, cheers! I'll order one tomorrow.
I'm about ready to hook up the inputs/outputs, I have:
IN/SG which are from the RCAs, IN being positive and hence centre pin?
OUT/OG for the speakers, OUT to red I assume
There are also ground pins on both the RCA and speakers posts which seem to connect to the chassis via the mounting screws, do these need connecting to anything or can I leave them?
I have 4 connections for power for the transformer, 2xAC1 and 2xAC2, there doesn't seem to be anything in the manual about which way to wire these up, does anyone know?
thanks again,
K
progress 
blue/green = speakers, orange/yellow = rca input, blue/brown = ac input
can't wait to fire it up
the screw terminals I've used appear to be useless so I'll have to replace them once it's working, all the wire was salvaged from an old PC PSU so will also be high on the replacement list.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
blue/green = speakers, orange/yellow = rca input, blue/brown = ac input
can't wait to fire it up
the screw terminals I've used appear to be useless so I'll have to replace them once it's working, all the wire was salvaged from an old PC PSU so will also be high on the replacement list.
Kieran. The speaker binding posts and RCA's must be isolated from the chassis. No part must connect with the metal chassis. The In and Out connections have an OG and IG connections, these go to the RCA and binding post grounds (solder tags)
The dual secondary transformer connects as to one pair of secondary's (say Red & Black) connect to the two AC1 points and the other pair (normally yellow and Orange) the AC2
Have you applied any thermal compound to to the back of the chip? It is worth doing for good heat transfer.
It is difficult to see from the photo, but the base of the PCB's must be raised off the metal case/heat sinks otherwise you might release the magic smoke.
The dual secondary transformer connects as to one pair of secondary's (say Red & Black) connect to the two AC1 points and the other pair (normally yellow and Orange) the AC2
Have you applied any thermal compound to to the back of the chip? It is worth doing for good heat transfer.
It is difficult to see from the photo, but the base of the PCB's must be raised off the metal case/heat sinks otherwise you might release the magic smoke.
Thanks Puffin,
The speakers posts have 3 pins - one to each post and a 3rd which connects to the screw and hence chassis. I guess it was needed for the amp they came off but if I leave them disconnected it should be fine. Neither of the speakers posts nor RCA pins will be connected to chassis ground.
Just in case I'm being really daft, OG would be the black speakers post and OUT the red, IN would be the centre pin of the RCA and IG the outer shell?
I've used silver based thermal compound on the chips, just a thin layer.
There are plastic screw terminals on the bottoms of the PCBs which keep them raised off the chassis, I might end up using a layer of mica or something too as extra insurance. I've tested continuity between various points and the chassis and there is none.
The transformer sounds straight forward, I'll check the colours when it arrives to be sure.
Thanks again!
The speakers posts have 3 pins - one to each post and a 3rd which connects to the screw and hence chassis. I guess it was needed for the amp they came off but if I leave them disconnected it should be fine. Neither of the speakers posts nor RCA pins will be connected to chassis ground.
Just in case I'm being really daft, OG would be the black speakers post and OUT the red, IN would be the centre pin of the RCA and IG the outer shell?
I've used silver based thermal compound on the chips, just a thin layer.
There are plastic screw terminals on the bottoms of the PCBs which keep them raised off the chassis, I might end up using a layer of mica or something too as extra insurance. I've tested continuity between various points and the chassis and there is none.
The transformer sounds straight forward, I'll check the colours when it arrives to be sure.
Thanks again!
Keep us informed as to how it goes. If you are like many others on here the next step is to make a point to point chipamp. The easiest way to do it is to follow the diagram on Decibeldungeon
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gainclone_3886.html
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gainclone_3886.html
Ok, finally got my transformer, I think I'm ready to go!
I've got 4 input wires and 4 outputs, the inputs are BLU/GRY and VIO/BRN, presumably I connect BLU to live, BRN to neutral and VIO to GRY (to run them in series, 230v)
for the outputs I have BLK/RED and ORG/YEL, going to AC1 and AC2 respectively.
I'm not sure whether to just connect it and fire it up or remove the amp boards, test the PSU board then connect it back up... I can't see where I could have gone wrong soldering them (famous last words...)
I've got 4 input wires and 4 outputs, the inputs are BLU/GRY and VIO/BRN, presumably I connect BLU to live, BRN to neutral and VIO to GRY (to run them in series, 230v)
for the outputs I have BLK/RED and ORG/YEL, going to AC1 and AC2 respectively.
I'm not sure whether to just connect it and fire it up or remove the amp boards, test the PSU board then connect it back up... I can't see where I could have gone wrong soldering them (famous last words...)
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