T-amps such as SI Sure, Charlize etc... in context of "traditional" solid state? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 12th August 2008, 12:27 AM   #11
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Thanks Fred, that's a nice bit off input.
You wouldn't care to expand on what you think chip amps could be sold for if we didn't know they were chip amps would you

I may just get an answer one day

Very OT Fred, but how are the kids behaved in NZ? I hear they are looking for teachers and I graduate as a tech teacher in 1 year... The kids in Glasgow seem too preoccupied with stabbing each other and listening to happy hardcore to do much learning
After a short shore leave climbing Mt Cook in NZ my dad said he seriously considered not going back to his ship when he was an Electrical engineer in the Navy many moons back. Guess it's just as well he did... for me at least.
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Old 12th August 2008, 02:15 AM   #12
fredex is offline fredex  New Zealand
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doogyscoot
I also tried chip amps LM3886 and they are good, so good I don't have any inclination to build discreet as I doubt they would be any better in a significant way. To my ears they still have a slight grain or "texture" to them in common with discreet SS amps. I use a chip amp daily.
Jeff Roland sells amps based on the LM3886 beautifully made. I can understand your comment about hiding the fact they use chips, HiFi has always had a flavour of the month. Class D is here to stay though, it is good technology, and so are chip amps.

Kids here are probably no different. Gangs drugs etc, we are just seeing the first meth amphetamine babies entering the system and it is not good. NZ is not like the UK 30yrs ago with a tropical climate sad to say.
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Old 13th August 2008, 03:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: T-amps such as SI Sure, Charlize etc... in context of "traditional" solid state?

Quote:
Originally posted by doogyscoot
Hey, I'm quite new to the T-amp thing, late on the wagon I know, but I fear I am being converted. Just out of interest though.
If you were asked to compare on a price level what you would expect to spend on a solid state "conventional" amp such as those produced by NAD, Marantz, Cambridge audio etc, where would you say we sit?
I know this requires a lot of generalisation so please save yourself the bother of telling me that it's not as simple as making general equivalents due to the various factors. But say a complete newcomer to T-amps was to ask how much he'd have to spend to get comparable performance from an off the shelf model from the likes of the aforementioned to one of the above T-amps with a good PSU and the usual cap mods etc, what would you say? Obviously assuming he doesn't require a lot of power.
I'll start the betting at about 300 ($600)
This is all "highly" reliant on the quality of the speakers and "somewhat" reliant on the quality of the source as well. Information needed in order to answer the question, is missing, as is the answer.

As for speakers related to amplifiers: Do the speakers perform much better OR only slightly better if given firm motor control? Most sealed box speakers would be more reliant. A generally boomy ported speaker is reliant; however, a "generally" non-boomy ported speaker won't reveal as much difference between different models of amplifiers. A speaker that lacks for appropriate drive may exhibit "jukebox bass" booms that indicate the lack of motor control (electronic dampening), and amplifiers do vary on this.

You're quoting the T-amp, which is a BTL amplifier, and BTL/bridged do have a bit stronger motor control--not really inherent, but because bridged amplifiers compensate better to subtract the effects of power supply design goofs. Power supply directly relates to motor control / electronic dampening and in retail models its "likely" to get something long on appearance, but lacking on function.
Hey, I'm trying to say, either compare it to another bridged amp or compare it to a regular amp that has a really fine power supply (whether its pretty or not).

As far as source related to amplifiers: Does the amplifier or source have an inbuilt preamplifier, and do they match reasonably or differ wildly? Preamplifiers can make up this difference, but they also come in just as much variety. The issue needs addressed because it occurs before the amplifier, thus any error is "amplified" by any amplifier. So do check out the source equipment to see how much amplifier and speaker quality is actually useful for a given source.

EDIT: Is that general enough?
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Old 13th August 2008, 03:58 PM   #14
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Give me an answer that starts with $ and relates to the question and I'll die a happy man

No but seriously, That was a very informative post, thanks. I am fairly aware of the shortcomings of chipamps and their dependence on a good clean power supply, as well as the the importance of matching to the "right" set of speakers, though its nice to have a more technical summary to tie up what I have gleaned from reading through some of the threads on here. If noone is willing to put a figure up for whatever reason fair enough. It was just a bit of idle curiosity that is clearly not going to get an answer.

Regards, Doug.
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Old 13th August 2008, 04:26 PM   #15
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$2000.

How's that? It's a number I think I've seen quoted in a review or two about Sonic Impact, Trends, etc.

You are asking an impossible question, you know. There seems to be a wide range of quality at any given pricepoint, and that seems to be more true as you move up the food chain, Get to the $10K range and a good deal of your money is going to metal fabrication.

Used or new? Homebuilt? Chinese kits on eBay? Niceties like soft start, switchable speakers, sub outputs, tone controls, etc? So what does a $ really mean?

Seriously I feel that the quality of sound from one of these little Tripaths (I like the Amp 6 especially) kicks the *** of most any mass-market piece of gear going up to several hundreds of dollars, easily a bargain in that realm. Get to the thousands, well, the advantage is not at all clear. Most people around the forums feel a good class A will easly beat the best class-D, but obviously those have their drawbacks, and I don't want to speak for everybody.

Oh, and when in doubt, listen. This is the DIY forum after all.

--Buckapound
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Old 13th August 2008, 05:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buckapound
$2000.

How's that? It's a number I think I've seen quoted in a review or two about Sonic Impact, Trends, etc.

You are asking an impossible question, you know. There seems to be a wide range of quality at any given pricepoint, and that seems to be more true as you move up the food chain, Get to the $10K range and a good deal of your money is going to metal fabrication.

Used or new? Homebuilt? Chinese kits on eBay? Niceties like soft start, switchable speakers, sub outputs, tone controls, etc? So what does a $ really mean?

Seriously I feel that the quality of sound from one of these little Tripaths (I like the Amp 6 especially) kicks the *** of most any mass-market piece of gear going up to several hundreds of dollars, "easily a bargain in that realm. Get to the thousands, well, the advantage is not at all clear. Most people around the forums feel a good class A will easly beat the best class-D, but obviously those have their drawbacks, and I don't want to speak for everybody.

Oh, and when in doubt, listen. This is the DIY forum after all.

--Buckapound
Thanks, but really there's no reason for all the well moderated hostility, if people don't like a question they are perfectly entitled to not answer. I don't think it's an impossible question give =n that I was quite clear about the fact I was only after general ideas/opinions without hard data backing them up.

"I feel that the quality of sound from one of these little Tripaths (I like the Amp 6 especially) kicks the *** of most any mass-market piece of gear going up to several hundreds of dollars"

This is exactly what I was after as far as responses go.

As for listening, I try my best, I have a T-amp with a good SMPS but will reserve full judgement until I have put in a few mods. I agree that it is very good but I know I am not getting the best from it due to the speakers and source I am using. With more time and opportunity to listen (my daughter is in bed by 8PM and the rest of my spare time is spent entertaining her) I'm sure I will have a better impression.
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Old 13th August 2008, 08:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by doogyscoot


Thanks, but really there's no reason for all the well moderated hostility, if people don't like a question they are perfectly entitled to not answer. I don't think it's an impossible question give =n that I was quite clear about the fact I was only after general ideas/opinions without hard data backing them up.

"I feel that the quality of sound from one of these little Tripaths (I like the Amp 6 especially) kicks the *** of most any mass-market piece of gear going up to several hundreds of dollars"

This is exactly what I was after as far as responses go.

As for listening, I try my best, I have a T-amp with a good SMPS but will reserve full judgement until I have put in a few mods. I agree that it is very good but I know I am not getting the best from it due to the speakers and source I am using. With more time and opportunity to listen (my daughter is in bed by 8PM and the rest of my spare time is spent entertaining her) I'm sure I will have a better impression.
Simply put, you'd either have to do it yourself or else the price tag will exceed the mass market class. That $2000 is no joke.

Caveat: The Tripath BTL amplifier's performance can be experienced at its potential with very high efficiency 4 ohm speakers and approximately 12vdc operation. Using higher voltage (14vdc) for 8 ohm and/or less efficient speakers does reduce fidelity to some extent. Use with inefficient speakers may reduce fidelity (during actual use) to below that of Radio Shack's $100 Sherwood (and similar mass market products).

I have experienced this caveat with my Tripath BTL (T-amp and others).
Four of these http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=264-852 to make 4 ohm, 94db MTM (in-box is even more efficient), was a nice answer to that caveat. There are many other options, but none quite so "goof proof," in my opinion.
They (both channels) plus the Tripath BTL can reach theater volume level. Doing it on solar power is priceless.

This was last used about a year ago. Personally, I think its easy to get a generally good sound from a Tripath BTL, like the T-amp--but the chipamp can give me exactly the sound that I prefer and at a lower price.
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