So whats everybodys preference when it comes to sub enclosures?
personaly i've always liked sealed boxes for the tight, and solid bass. to me it just sounds more natural, its not like it cant hit that low rumble down in the 30hz range it just doesnt exagerate it. At least thats how i always felt about ported or vented boxes.
so i'd like to see some other views, its not an argument just personal preference.
for the last four or five years i've had 2 dual voice coil 12 inch Comp-VR's in the back with 800watts @ 2ohm feeding them in there own seperate sealed boxes.
personaly i've always liked sealed boxes for the tight, and solid bass. to me it just sounds more natural, its not like it cant hit that low rumble down in the 30hz range it just doesnt exagerate it. At least thats how i always felt about ported or vented boxes.
so i'd like to see some other views, its not an argument just personal preference.
for the last four or five years i've had 2 dual voice coil 12 inch Comp-VR's in the back with 800watts @ 2ohm feeding them in there own seperate sealed boxes.
What it comes down to really is that given the small space available inside a car, it's often impossible to vent a decent high-excursion woofer, both in terms of available volume, and in terms of physically fitting the vent into a smallish box.
Also, with cabin gain, sealed boxes match up better with this natural boost.
Tight / solid bass IMO comes simply from the correct design of box, and implementation of crossover and integration, rather than box sealed vs vented per se.
Also, with cabin gain, sealed boxes match up better with this natural boost.
Tight / solid bass IMO comes simply from the correct design of box, and implementation of crossover and integration, rather than box sealed vs vented per se.
i think it depends on orientation of the box....i think sealed boxes sound best the farther away they are from you, crushing lows.
i always use vented boxes though, for me its easier to tune and tailor the taste to a customers liking. Alot of people dont listen to the kind of music that has alot of sub bass, and prefer strong midbass, starting in the upper bass region, just coming out of the sub bass region.....sub and port face are really important here.
you can tune a ported box to one octave above a sub bass frequency, and it will still play the low notes(just not as strong)....and not unload like most people think...depends on actual box volume.
i usually stay away from making bandpass boxes for customers because in the wrong hands they are sub killers.
i always use vented boxes though, for me its easier to tune and tailor the taste to a customers liking. Alot of people dont listen to the kind of music that has alot of sub bass, and prefer strong midbass, starting in the upper bass region, just coming out of the sub bass region.....sub and port face are really important here.
you can tune a ported box to one octave above a sub bass frequency, and it will still play the low notes(just not as strong)....and not unload like most people think...depends on actual box volume.
i usually stay away from making bandpass boxes for customers because in the wrong hands they are sub killers.
My personal preference here is sealed.
Mainly because i feel that a large woofer (15") in a sealed box x over`ed low (50-60hz) and in combination with dedicated midbass drivers (8") gives less mechanical noise from the vehicle and doesent give the subbox away as rear mounted.
My former setup with dual ported 10`s didnt give me as much satisfaction as my current solution.
More rattles, less deep bass, and much easyer to locate as a rear mounted box, and didnt even sound snappier than my current sealed 15"
Mainly because i feel that a large woofer (15") in a sealed box x over`ed low (50-60hz) and in combination with dedicated midbass drivers (8") gives less mechanical noise from the vehicle and doesent give the subbox away as rear mounted.
My former setup with dual ported 10`s didnt give me as much satisfaction as my current solution.
More rattles, less deep bass, and much easyer to locate as a rear mounted box, and didnt even sound snappier than my current sealed 15"
What bothers me the most is that 95% of people install their subs in the trunk, completely isolated from cabin, and then talk about SQ bass when ALL they can hear is muddy superposition of sound waves and a lot of interference.
In my understanding, the perfect bass should punch you directly into the chest and take your breath away but it MUST NOT make your seats vibrate or make wowowowow –standing-wave like sounds of retarded rap music.
I tried building both vented and sealed enclosures but I was not satisfied with sound because as soon as I turned off my speakers to listen to the bass alone - it was horrible sounding. I experimented a lot with moving my sub enclosure and figured out that one of the best places was between the front seats oriented directly at the windshield. It minimized the amount of seat vibrations and gave me clarity that I was looking for. Also, ALL of the external car noises were gone. However, even though the bass became a lot clearer, it was less punchy compared to subs in the trunk, so I had to quadruple the amplifier power to get the clean, chest-pounding reflection off of the windshield that I was looking for.
I ended up using single JL 10W6v2 sub powered by JBL bpx1100.1 in 1.25 ft^3 sealed enclosure.
In my understanding, the perfect bass should punch you directly into the chest and take your breath away but it MUST NOT make your seats vibrate or make wowowowow –standing-wave like sounds of retarded rap music.
I tried building both vented and sealed enclosures but I was not satisfied with sound because as soon as I turned off my speakers to listen to the bass alone - it was horrible sounding. I experimented a lot with moving my sub enclosure and figured out that one of the best places was between the front seats oriented directly at the windshield. It minimized the amount of seat vibrations and gave me clarity that I was looking for. Also, ALL of the external car noises were gone. However, even though the bass became a lot clearer, it was less punchy compared to subs in the trunk, so I had to quadruple the amplifier power to get the clean, chest-pounding reflection off of the windshield that I was looking for.
I ended up using single JL 10W6v2 sub powered by JBL bpx1100.1 in 1.25 ft^3 sealed enclosure.
i cant think of any time i listen to just the bass and thought it sounded good. from in my truck, to suv, and almost all the time when mixing on a cpu using a digital multiband compressor. Subs dont sound good alone. they never will. thats the beauty of having the highs and mids cut through and everything just mixes perfectly and those low subsonic sounds now only add to every part making it more intense and powerful. but once you cut all the highs from it its back to rumblerumblerumbleblahblah.
i agree positioning has a big impact, but if you got subs no matter what your seats are gonna rattle. if you got good subs, your seat is gonna rattle while it kicks you in the chest. ya know
i've always had my subs in the same cab as me. In my tacoma, and now in my 4runner. i must say nothing i've sat in beats a pick truck with the extra cab strapped w/ a couple 12's. God i miss it!
i agree positioning has a big impact, but if you got subs no matter what your seats are gonna rattle. if you got good subs, your seat is gonna rattle while it kicks you in the chest. ya know
i've always had my subs in the same cab as me. In my tacoma, and now in my 4runner. i must say nothing i've sat in beats a pick truck with the extra cab strapped w/ a couple 12's. God i miss it!
The SUVs are different form sedans, so I can’t comment on what enclosure design is going to work the best for you because I never experimented with SUVs. I spent a lot of time experimenting with enclosures in sedans though. Here is my most recent setup behind the front seats:
The theory behind my deign is that the bottom part of spherical audio wave gets slowed down by the MDF wall and the plastic pillow behind the front seats, so that distractive interference occurs at 60Hz while waves travel toward the windshield and your seats vibrate less. When waves hit the windshield, the glass starts flexing and sends back homogeneous punch at your chest.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The theory behind my deign is that the bottom part of spherical audio wave gets slowed down by the MDF wall and the plastic pillow behind the front seats, so that distractive interference occurs at 60Hz while waves travel toward the windshield and your seats vibrate less. When waves hit the windshield, the glass starts flexing and sends back homogeneous punch at your chest.
. 60hz wave is a 60 cycle / sec. wave all the way till you cant hear it anymore. 
actually that board acts like a loading board.
similiar but not exactly the same as a bandpass box, a bandpass box combines the negative half as well as the positive half of a wave....giving output which is a combination of both.
part of the reason why a properly designed bandpass is louder.
the output is the combination of both halves of the wave. this is why speaker placement and distance is less dependent with a bandpass design.
so hes not slowing it, hes combining halves...
the angle of that board is also helping to aim the sound...dont believe me, try it for yourself...
as for 60hz
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heres my ghetto ported box...and modified subs.
similiar but not exactly the same as a bandpass box, a bandpass box combines the negative half as well as the positive half of a wave....giving output which is a combination of both.
part of the reason why a properly designed bandpass is louder.
the output is the combination of both halves of the wave. this is why speaker placement and distance is less dependent with a bandpass design.
so hes not slowing it, hes combining halves...
the angle of that board is also helping to aim the sound...dont believe me, try it for yourself...
as for 60hz
-------------------------------------------------------------
heres my ghetto ported box...and modified subs.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Really? See the way you explain that i dont see anyone being able to hear anything do to phase cancelation. right?
I thought bandpass boxes are sealed either from behind or in front of the cone and ported on the other side.
I always figured since doing this the two cones that are pushing against each other in the sealed part are creating pressure and basically bouncing off each other, which is like a natural energy causing the woofers to do less work and the need of a huge amp less needed.
like a passive bandpass, a woofer in a box with another cone type woofer (but w/ out a coil).
i was always under the impression that if you take ( + ) half of a wave and combine it with its ( - ) you hear nothing.
so now im even more confused because by simply putting a board in front of half a speaker doesnt block just a + or - half of the wave. WHAT I SEE THAT BOARD DOING IS BLOCKING HALF THE SUB CAUSING SOUND WAVES TO BOUNCE BACK INTO THE TRUNK PART OF HIS CAR BASICALLY USING HIS TRUNK AS A BOX. KIND OF LIKE A BANDPASS YOU COULD SAY. WHICH IRONCALLY lets call it PHASE CANCELS HIS POST ABOUT SUBS IN THE TRUNK AND DISLIKING THEM.
am i totally missing something here? cause im not trying to argue but i feel like understanding this needs to be handled. this is basic understanding of audio.
I thought bandpass boxes are sealed either from behind or in front of the cone and ported on the other side.
I always figured since doing this the two cones that are pushing against each other in the sealed part are creating pressure and basically bouncing off each other, which is like a natural energy causing the woofers to do less work and the need of a huge amp less needed.
like a passive bandpass, a woofer in a box with another cone type woofer (but w/ out a coil).
i was always under the impression that if you take ( + ) half of a wave and combine it with its ( - ) you hear nothing.
so now im even more confused because by simply putting a board in front of half a speaker doesnt block just a + or - half of the wave. WHAT I SEE THAT BOARD DOING IS BLOCKING HALF THE SUB CAUSING SOUND WAVES TO BOUNCE BACK INTO THE TRUNK PART OF HIS CAR BASICALLY USING HIS TRUNK AS A BOX. KIND OF LIKE A BANDPASS YOU COULD SAY. WHICH IRONCALLY lets call it PHASE CANCELS HIS POST ABOUT SUBS IN THE TRUNK AND DISLIKING THEM.
am i totally missing something here? cause im not trying to argue but i feel like understanding this needs to be handled. this is basic understanding of audio.
Impsick,
Bouncing a sound wave back into the car boot area, does not make that area act like a speaker box allowing more/deeper bass. The limiting factor is the air spring against the cone which will be what the actual box provides.
Clipped,
As for combining the waves in a bandpass box, either you meant something different explained it wrong or you just got it plain wrong. A vented box works by taking the rear (out of phase) wave, delaying it a bit then adding it to the front to gain some extra SPL.
In a bandpass box the front section merely acts as a low-pass filter by the same principle as a normal vented box being driven at resonance and below.
Bad Silver,
In any case, the point about bouncing a wave back from the windscreen to feel it in the chest is kind of moot when the dominant wave will be coming at you from the box. Remember this wave has to pass through you to hit the windscreen...
Bouncing a sound wave back into the car boot area, does not make that area act like a speaker box allowing more/deeper bass. The limiting factor is the air spring against the cone which will be what the actual box provides.
Clipped,
As for combining the waves in a bandpass box, either you meant something different explained it wrong or you just got it plain wrong. A vented box works by taking the rear (out of phase) wave, delaying it a bit then adding it to the front to gain some extra SPL.
In a bandpass box the front section merely acts as a low-pass filter by the same principle as a normal vented box being driven at resonance and below.
Bad Silver,
In any case, the point about bouncing a wave back from the windscreen to feel it in the chest is kind of moot when the dominant wave will be coming at you from the box. Remember this wave has to pass through you to hit the windscreen...
richie, i dont know man, i respect your knowlege but im gonna have to disagree.
example....
in a home set up, if you hang a speaker on the wall you in part get an added 3dB.
if you put it against the wall on the floor you will get an added 6dB.
and blah blah if you put it in the corner on the floor you will get an added 9dB.
(and we are talking ugly muddy decibell's that are added)
you agree?
me calling it a bandpass was nothing more then a joke but im positive that if he opened his trunk his bass would drop at least 9dB, there for the trunk does act like a box and does amplify the the sound.
ah i see his trunk part is sealed off pretty much so lets pretend its not.
example....
in a home set up, if you hang a speaker on the wall you in part get an added 3dB.
if you put it against the wall on the floor you will get an added 6dB.
and blah blah if you put it in the corner on the floor you will get an added 9dB.
(and we are talking ugly muddy decibell's that are added)
you agree?
me calling it a bandpass was nothing more then a joke but im positive that if he opened his trunk his bass would drop at least 9dB, there for the trunk does act like a box and does amplify the the sound.
ah i see his trunk part is sealed off pretty much so lets pretend its not.
What you are referring to there Impsick is what is called boundary reinforcement. This happens because the speaker if being driven into 1/2 space (first scenario), 1/4 space (second scenario) or 1/8 space (third scenario).
So I guess that it is right about you comment opening the boot lid to the outside world will lose sound, but not because the boot space is amplifying anything as such, just because you are now driving into (at least) twice the acoustic space.
So I guess that it is right about you comment opening the boot lid to the outside world will lose sound, but not because the boot space is amplifying anything as such, just because you are now driving into (at least) twice the acoustic space.
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