Just thinking...
I know 2 way is simpler than 3 way setup, and the reason why 3 way is difficult is because of the crossover and how it interacts in car.
Anyone tried 3 way using electronic crossover?
i.e., Source -> Crossover -> 6ch amp-> Speakers
Worth it? or will it be at best as good as a good 2 way setup
I know 2 way is simpler than 3 way setup, and the reason why 3 way is difficult is because of the crossover and how it interacts in car.
Anyone tried 3 way using electronic crossover?
i.e., Source -> Crossover -> 6ch amp-> Speakers
Worth it? or will it be at best as good as a good 2 way setup
Yup, Done it to several cars.
More a matter of what the speakers are like than the xover.
Last one I did was a BMW M3, with all Nakamichi.
The front was an absolute pain to adjust just because the speakers were such pigs to get right.
A tiny bit one way or the other in tuning and the speaker would turn very ugly.
The problem was more the mid than the other two.
End result was great, but for the money and time spent, I think there are more cost effective ways of getting very close sonically.
Personally I'm using two way fronts and boot sub (once I've built the sub that is)
More a matter of what the speakers are like than the xover.
Last one I did was a BMW M3, with all Nakamichi.
The front was an absolute pain to adjust just because the speakers were such pigs to get right.
A tiny bit one way or the other in tuning and the speaker would turn very ugly.
The problem was more the mid than the other two.
End result was great, but for the money and time spent, I think there are more cost effective ways of getting very close sonically.
Personally I'm using two way fronts and boot sub (once I've built the sub that is)
Most active filtering messes up the signal because they use cheap op-amps/components and a long signal path...
My experience is better with the very easy to build and deadcheap pllxo filters:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/filters/passiveHLxo.html
To maybe make things a little easier to understand from the start:
Resistor in series capacitor parallel cuts the highs, capacitor in series resistor parallel cuts the lows(same values, same x-over frequency).
Increasing values lowers x-over freq.
Decreasing values rises x-over freq.
With only two components per channel you can create a 6db's decreasing per octave filter!
With only four components per channel you can create a 12db's decreasing per octave filter!
Choise of component quality in order of preference:
Capacitor:"peanutbutter oil soaked paper-foil caps" (joke) "MKP","MKC","MKT".
Resistor:at least "metalfilm"
My experience is better with the very easy to build and deadcheap pllxo filters:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/filters/passiveHLxo.html
To maybe make things a little easier to understand from the start:
Resistor in series capacitor parallel cuts the highs, capacitor in series resistor parallel cuts the lows(same values, same x-over frequency).
Increasing values lowers x-over freq.
Decreasing values rises x-over freq.
With only two components per channel you can create a 6db's decreasing per octave filter!
With only four components per channel you can create a 12db's decreasing per octave filter!
Choise of component quality in order of preference:
Capacitor:"peanutbutter oil soaked paper-foil caps" (joke) "MKP","MKC","MKT".
Resistor:at least "metalfilm"
Searching for the right words so bare with me.
The active xover isn't the problem.
It's the speakers.
As such the line level passive is no better than an active.
More expensive speakers (like the three way nak) have more in their passive xover than just a xover point.
they also have notch filters, compensation circuits etc.
What an active xover has is a xover point and level controls.
If the speaker has a spike or dip in it's response, then unles you have a proper eq/parametric, it's going to be very hard to adjust a std electronic xover to get the speakers to their best.
Example; take a decent domestic speaker system.
rip out the xover and make a new one that only does basic xover duties, no corrections at all.
wouldn't this sound terrible.
Thats why I think a two way is easier to biamp, the speakers have to be more foriving and smoother individual responce curves to begin with.
Meaning no real need for notches etc..
All very rough, not looking at exact speaker details etc, rather a general over view.
Well that s my thoughts anyway........
The active xover isn't the problem.
It's the speakers.
As such the line level passive is no better than an active.
More expensive speakers (like the three way nak) have more in their passive xover than just a xover point.
they also have notch filters, compensation circuits etc.
What an active xover has is a xover point and level controls.
If the speaker has a spike or dip in it's response, then unles you have a proper eq/parametric, it's going to be very hard to adjust a std electronic xover to get the speakers to their best.
Example; take a decent domestic speaker system.
rip out the xover and make a new one that only does basic xover duties, no corrections at all.
wouldn't this sound terrible.
Thats why I think a two way is easier to biamp, the speakers have to be more foriving and smoother individual responce curves to begin with.
Meaning no real need for notches etc..
All very rough, not looking at exact speaker details etc, rather a general over view.
Well that s my thoughts anyway........
Any type of filtering is possible in a passive way, active filters have the advantage of keeping the outputlevel high. Extensive passive filtering can suffer high insertion loss, a preamp can help out when this occurs.
A passive filter has the advantage of low noise and low component count and is thus good sound quality+ easier and cheaper to build.
Look at this one (available as a kit, needs no power...): http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html
A passive filter has the advantage of low noise and low component count and is thus good sound quality+ easier and cheaper to build.
Look at this one (available as a kit, needs no power...): http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html
I always thought the advantage of active crossvers are, manipulating signals BEFORE they are amplified and carries power. It is difficult to separate a powered signal that goes from -50V to +50V DC with 4-5 Amps using passive components.
Sure there are cheap OpAmps and etc used in Car Crossovers, but the same opamps are used in the amplifiers as well.
But the notch filters and built-in EQs that a passive circuit has... that's something that needs to be considered with active crossovers....
I found a cheap Clarion 3way crossover for $60. I'll just buy it and give it a try.
Sure there are cheap OpAmps and etc used in Car Crossovers, but the same opamps are used in the amplifiers as well.
But the notch filters and built-in EQs that a passive circuit has... that's something that needs to be considered with active crossovers....
I found a cheap Clarion 3way crossover for $60. I'll just buy it and give it a try.
It just depends on whether the signal goes directly through, many good amps use op-amps only for dc-offsetting and other purposes not haveing the signal passing right through...
Passive filtering on the INput of a power amp requires only very small components where there's only little current and voltage...therefore the components don't even have to be able to "handle" much...
Choosing the right drivers can make simple filtering possible and many commercial designs done that way are legendary for their soundquality.
I'm afraid the clarion will not lead to longterm satisfaction (as it wouldn't for me). Maybe it can help tuning the system more easy, but I would recommend experimenting with one passive filter stage in the first place to get acquainted with it and learn from it.... and hear the better quality yourself....
Passive filtering on the INput of a power amp requires only very small components where there's only little current and voltage...therefore the components don't even have to be able to "handle" much...
Choosing the right drivers can make simple filtering possible and many commercial designs done that way are legendary for their soundquality.
I'm afraid the clarion will not lead to longterm satisfaction (as it wouldn't for me). Maybe it can help tuning the system more easy, but I would recommend experimenting with one passive filter stage in the first place to get acquainted with it and learn from it.... and hear the better quality yourself....
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