Hey
im putting a sound system into my new car and im gona put a component system on the front doors and subs in the boot, i want to know whethere i should MAKE a 2-way component system or a 3-way component system on the doors, even though im also gona have subs in the boot, is it a waste of money for 3 way or is it worth it??
P.S. im changing threads because the other one had a bad title/ topic related to this
thx
im putting a sound system into my new car and im gona put a component system on the front doors and subs in the boot, i want to know whethere i should MAKE a 2-way component system or a 3-way component system on the doors, even though im also gona have subs in the boot, is it a waste of money for 3 way or is it worth it??
P.S. im changing threads because the other one had a bad title/ topic related to this
thx
I agree with ocool_15 - a 3 way is a lot harder to fit into a car, a 2 way is hard enough. Might be a good idea to get a decent 2 way set, and concentrate on fitting them in a way to release their potential.
Hifi Hacks - Car and Home DIY Hifi
Hifi Hacks - Car and Home DIY Hifi
Go for it.
With only a 4 and 6 it doesnt seem to be much advantage using the same series. Model them. If your going to use 2 speakers that similar it just seems like a ton more work for little advantage.
You should post the T/s parameters or at least links and intended crosover points. I'm not sure of your experience but would you mind posting an image at least showing the intended locations? Perfect locations in a car are well beyond the physical constraints of an interior so that is why I question your locations.
With only a 4 and 6 it doesnt seem to be much advantage using the same series. Model them. If your going to use 2 speakers that similar it just seems like a ton more work for little advantage.
You should post the T/s parameters or at least links and intended crosover points. I'm not sure of your experience but would you mind posting an image at least showing the intended locations? Perfect locations in a car are well beyond the physical constraints of an interior so that is why I question your locations.
yeh ill take pics of the locations of the vehicle, as soon as i can, but i want to know what size speakers i should use in a 4-way including a tweeter and a 12 inch subwoofer??... i was thinkin of one of them being an 8 inch but that will like do the same job as the 12 almost so there's no point of putting that, but will the 6 inch go down to like 70 hz?? and wat type of midrange seal back or normal 4 inch or 2.5 inch... after i know these things i can tell u wat drivers i want to use and show parameters and ask for recomended x-over points.
thx
thx
FYI (just to let you know)
3 way in door where all sound is coming from same spot thinking 6,4,tweet?
i say NO WAY MAN!!!
1st you would have to build a passive network deviding the frequincies correctley NOT because it is fun to have each speaker have less work to do, that is NOT THE REASON, the reason is you want a divided network to make all speakers play in seprate range so no 2 or more speakers play same thing below 4 ohms,
For example if you had 2 4ohm subs in parrell the amp would see lets say 1 ohm (it is really LIKE 1.36 but nevermind that)
BUT if one sub was crossed over from 0 to 50 hz and other sub was 50hz and up the impeadiance would stay at 4 ohms, i hope you catching on. so 3 way on highs are good if you plan on running the 6 inch speaker down below 50Hz, i mean you need a ton of power and the 6inch must be in a sealed enclousure to be able to do it. if you do do 3 way i would build a custom X over using Polyproplene caps and air core inductiors. go 12db on the tweet at around 4500hz (but check the impeadance curve 1st dont want to rolla speaker off in a high impeadance band that is a no no)
for shure 6db bandpass on the 4 inch and 6 db low pass on the 6 inch, run the 6 inch 6db low pass to around 300hz run the 4 inch 6db highpass at 600hz ( 1 oactave seperation on 6db junction to have a -3db at 1/2 oactave of 300 and 1/2 suboactave of 600 to make bolth speakers nominal impeadiance stay at 4ohms) run the 4 inch lowpass 6db to at about 1.3kHz it will slowly roll off and will give a small rise in impediance around 3kHz witch is a good thing, If you have 30 band eq you notice that 3kHz sounds like poo poo..
OK that is a 3 way setup done right...it is better if tweet and mid are in dash close to eachother and midbass in kick or door to apply a 3 way really really efficatavly.
But the easiest way to achieve the same or most time BETTER sound is just keep it simple do a 2 way...serious it sounds better most of the time. make shure to build a sealed enclousure for midbass and just dont be afraid to put massive amounts of power on your highs...
goodluck
Andy
3 way in door where all sound is coming from same spot thinking 6,4,tweet?
i say NO WAY MAN!!!
1st you would have to build a passive network deviding the frequincies correctley NOT because it is fun to have each speaker have less work to do, that is NOT THE REASON, the reason is you want a divided network to make all speakers play in seprate range so no 2 or more speakers play same thing below 4 ohms,
For example if you had 2 4ohm subs in parrell the amp would see lets say 1 ohm (it is really LIKE 1.36 but nevermind that)
BUT if one sub was crossed over from 0 to 50 hz and other sub was 50hz and up the impeadiance would stay at 4 ohms, i hope you catching on. so 3 way on highs are good if you plan on running the 6 inch speaker down below 50Hz, i mean you need a ton of power and the 6inch must be in a sealed enclousure to be able to do it. if you do do 3 way i would build a custom X over using Polyproplene caps and air core inductiors. go 12db on the tweet at around 4500hz (but check the impeadance curve 1st dont want to rolla speaker off in a high impeadance band that is a no no)
for shure 6db bandpass on the 4 inch and 6 db low pass on the 6 inch, run the 6 inch 6db low pass to around 300hz run the 4 inch 6db highpass at 600hz ( 1 oactave seperation on 6db junction to have a -3db at 1/2 oactave of 300 and 1/2 suboactave of 600 to make bolth speakers nominal impeadiance stay at 4ohms) run the 4 inch lowpass 6db to at about 1.3kHz it will slowly roll off and will give a small rise in impediance around 3kHz witch is a good thing, If you have 30 band eq you notice that 3kHz sounds like poo poo..
OK that is a 3 way setup done right...it is better if tweet and mid are in dash close to eachother and midbass in kick or door to apply a 3 way really really efficatavly.
But the easiest way to achieve the same or most time BETTER sound is just keep it simple do a 2 way...serious it sounds better most of the time. make shure to build a sealed enclousure for midbass and just dont be afraid to put massive amounts of power on your highs...
goodluck
Andy
hey
i tottaly understand what ure sayiing, and thats wat i plan 2 do, the only reason im doing 3-way instead of 2-way is because i got the space in the dash, and 3 way will sound better ofcourse, except i plan to make my 6.5" go down to 80(not 50) and if i wanted to y cant i put the 6,4,twt on the door together????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
i tottaly understand what ure sayiing, and thats wat i plan 2 do, the only reason im doing 3-way instead of 2-way is because i got the space in the dash, and 3 way will sound better ofcourse, except i plan to make my 6.5" go down to 80(not 50) and if i wanted to y cant i put the 6,4,twt on the door together????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
well you could put the 6,4,1 in the door but if all speakers are close together and crossed over correctley the load will remain 4 ohms so that being said, it would have the same amount of output as just having a good single driver capable of playing the entire bandwith.
If olny one speaker is blaynig band with than the phase carickteristicks
are much moore desireable. But if you have a dash location i say use it put the mid and tweet right next to eachother so it will image good. Your goona loose some of the sweetspot because you will have a dash speaker very close to your left ear (if your the driver of car) so arrival times will be kinda screwey but in return you will have a very high and very realistic soundstage.
I mean i am talking about a front speaker system being driven off a single two channel amp for all front speakers.
If you are using mutipale amps for the front than that is a entirely diffrent critter and everything i stated earlier wouldnt apply because you now dealing with mutipale electronic X-overs and stuff....
But IMO a very big ( at least 100w X2 @4ohm RMS rating ) just for front speakers is the best choice for a simple but very effective system.
If olny one speaker is blaynig band with than the phase carickteristicks
are much moore desireable. But if you have a dash location i say use it put the mid and tweet right next to eachother so it will image good. Your goona loose some of the sweetspot because you will have a dash speaker very close to your left ear (if your the driver of car) so arrival times will be kinda screwey but in return you will have a very high and very realistic soundstage.
I mean i am talking about a front speaker system being driven off a single two channel amp for all front speakers.
If you are using mutipale amps for the front than that is a entirely diffrent critter and everything i stated earlier wouldnt apply because you now dealing with mutipale electronic X-overs and stuff....
But IMO a very big ( at least 100w X2 @4ohm RMS rating ) just for front speakers is the best choice for a simple but very effective system.
yes, basicly,
You just gotta use your best judgement on what will look the best and sound the best, good experiance or advice can help allot too but if your the one doing it than hey.. you know what you want...
there was one car i did where there was a black hole @ 400 HZ so bad even if i boosted 400hz on eq all the way up , i was fighting distrutiave interfariance soo bad..there was a 6 and a tweet in door. i added a 4 inch in door with the other speakers but it had its own amp and olny played 400Hz, i had it crossed over at 400Hz 12db highpass electronicly and 6db passive low pass at 400Hz, that 4 inch speaker was in a sealed enclousure as well. and that fixed my 400Hz black hole enough , I could have just mooved the placement of the 6 inch so 400Hz wasnt canceling at driver head area but than i would have had to re-do the entire door and pannel. i didnt want to have to do it just for a few db at a specific frequencie... do you see what i mean.
but in prior practices, a 6 and a 1 inch sounds great, if youu have a dash location to utilise than use it you will like the way it sounds..
You just gotta use your best judgement on what will look the best and sound the best, good experiance or advice can help allot too but if your the one doing it than hey.. you know what you want...
there was one car i did where there was a black hole @ 400 HZ so bad even if i boosted 400hz on eq all the way up , i was fighting distrutiave interfariance soo bad..there was a 6 and a tweet in door. i added a 4 inch in door with the other speakers but it had its own amp and olny played 400Hz, i had it crossed over at 400Hz 12db highpass electronicly and 6db passive low pass at 400Hz, that 4 inch speaker was in a sealed enclousure as well. and that fixed my 400Hz black hole enough , I could have just mooved the placement of the 6 inch so 400Hz wasnt canceling at driver head area but than i would have had to re-do the entire door and pannel. i didnt want to have to do it just for a few db at a specific frequencie... do you see what i mean.
but in prior practices, a 6 and a 1 inch sounds great, if youu have a dash location to utilise than use it you will like the way it sounds..
30bandgeek said:
Your explaination of Impedence is difficult to follow. The 1-1.36ohms I assume you are referring to a theoretical Re of the drivers in parrallel and then you jump back to using the nominal impededence. You realize impedence is frequency depenent and a nominal 4 ohm speaker is only 4 ohms at 2 specific frequencies in a sealed box or free air.
Your recommended crosovers could easily be improved. The main reason is for less overlap and acoustic interference among other things. Impedence could potientally be an issue. Especially when your looking at placing the speakers that far apart physically I would be recommending much better crossovers. At the crossover between the 6.5 and 4 I would be recommending something more like 24db/oct linkwitz riley active if at all possible.
Your tweeter I would prefer to crossover lower if possible. And a 12db/oct would likely be in error. You want an even acoutic rolloff(what your listening to) not just electric. You would be theorectically better suited to say a 18db/oct on the tweet with a 6dB/oct on the woofer. Assuming the acoustic rolloff of the woofer is 12 dB/oct.
yesyes impediance is frequencie dependant. i think we are on the same train here.
I know that the x-over could be improved/changed i was giving example to author of post to try help him out understand 3 way x-overs and how there relationship to impeadiance. I mean i am assuming he isnt as knowledged on these kinds of things as we might be otherwise he wouldnt have posted the question in the topic the way he did. I aint just spouting out any random 3 way x-over network and labeling it "the best" by any means. :thumbup:
the advantages to three way, well they are alot of them, but not all of them will work for all situations.
there are just too many factors to concider and there has to be some thing to plug in. ~analogy~ to solve 5+5=10 you must have
at least two of those components in there to get the entire thing correctley. to say just flat out what are the advantages to three way would be like asking _+_=_ . do you see what i mean.
So to ask the advantages to three way, one would have to know kind of car and speaker placement, what kind of power, xovers, and amp channels available.
I could say one advantage to three way system is when using a large (and i mean silly large) amplifer/amplifers is each speaker can be crossed over with a narrower bandwith and each speaker becomes suprisingly accurate and you can really feel the highs run through your body.
But if you are using small amps (generaly less than 100w@4homs per channel RMS) you really dont notice the diffrance that much between 2 and 3 way setups. However on the same token even with lower wattage and running 3way you still have some advantages if you are good at speaker placement. Some low power and high power 3 way systems can really do quite well and image very nicely if your speaker placement is good and good eq'ing.
so you got to be careful and just think logicily before you do anything, dont just go stick a 4inch somewhere just because you have the speakers and the know how, you soundstage could very easily be comprimised. You dont want the focalpoint of the singer coming from driverseat to be coming from the left of you
what kind of car did you have again?
there are just too many factors to concider and there has to be some thing to plug in. ~analogy~ to solve 5+5=10 you must have
at least two of those components in there to get the entire thing correctley. to say just flat out what are the advantages to three way would be like asking _+_=_ . do you see what i mean.
So to ask the advantages to three way, one would have to know kind of car and speaker placement, what kind of power, xovers, and amp channels available.
I could say one advantage to three way system is when using a large (and i mean silly large) amplifer/amplifers is each speaker can be crossed over with a narrower bandwith and each speaker becomes suprisingly accurate and you can really feel the highs run through your body.
But if you are using small amps (generaly less than 100w@4homs per channel RMS) you really dont notice the diffrance that much between 2 and 3 way setups. However on the same token even with lower wattage and running 3way you still have some advantages if you are good at speaker placement. Some low power and high power 3 way systems can really do quite well and image very nicely if your speaker placement is good and good eq'ing.
so you got to be careful and just think logicily before you do anything, dont just go stick a 4inch somewhere just because you have the speakers and the know how, you soundstage could very easily be comprimised. You dont want the focalpoint of the singer coming from driverseat to be coming from the left of you
what kind of car did you have again?
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