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Old 15th June 2009, 06:56 PM   #21
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Shoot me an email. I have an old denon CD changer of a similar part number. is compatible with nakamichi so should be compatible with your denon. I boxed it up to sell years ago and noone wanted it. You can have it for free (plus overestimated shipping)
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Old 15th June 2009, 06:57 PM   #22
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I have not sourced a Denon changer yet to try it. but i have been doing some web searching and found that not all the denon units will work. just the older ones. Apparently the protocol used in the Nak's and the older Sony, denon and Fujitsu Ten/Eclipse decks is not used anymore.

I will say CAUTION. before plugging in any old changer into your deck. make sure it is compatible first. I know this is a bit difficult to do. but. the kenwood decks. are NOT compatible. as i understand it the clarion decks are not compatible. etc. many decks use that 13 pin plug but that does NOT mean they are wired the same or use the same protocol. PLEASE do not smoke your deck!~

I will be glad to share what info i know. I am no expert at this by any means, just a persistent searcher. but i sure would like to find someone with some real knowledge of cd changer protocols that could help us out!
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Old 15th June 2009, 07:00 PM   #23
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Zero, I know for Clarion if you doo enough heavy googling, there is a page (actually, is it kenwood? anyways,) that lists the history of their protocols by letter (Kenwood A, Kenwood B, Kenwood D, etc), what made their protocols different (mostly seemed to be updated to add text for the MP3 units), how the handshakes worked, and even some basic command and control.

If you can find information that goes back far enough (to the "A" protocols), you should have the nak protocol.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 05:39 PM   #24
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I have researched the Clarion and Kenwood protocols and they are not the same. I am not a digital expert however. and until someone Bit Bangs the protocol bus to figure out the exact code i think were stuck. and that's really what its going to take is someone to sit down with the deck and a logic analyzer and figure out the code.

I did take an older Kenwood unit and the cable pinouts are completely different. but, i made an adapter box but it still doesn't work. the Kenwood and Nak speak different languages.


Attached is the nak pinout from the schematics of a CD-45Z deck. you will notice it has Data In, Data Out, Clock In, Clock Out, Reset and Mute lines as well as a DSP Select line.

Now i suspect that these are called different things by diff mfg. most have Clock, Data and a request line.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 05:47 PM   #25
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and here is the pinout from a MB-100 schematic.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 06:32 PM   #26
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Thank you for the docs. I'll add them to the collection!

I assume the protocols were updated to allow for advanced features like text, which you will not have no matter what on the Nakamichi CD player. As I understand the protocol, anyways. Just not set up to understand it. That is why I assume your tests didnt work.

I have to wonder if it WOULD work if you used something like a mid 80's CD changer. Before the advent of CD titling and such.

Regardless, that is why IMO it's not feasible to hook up an ipod for ipod control to your nak. You'll inevitably have ot make an OEM control limitation, like mapping 6 playlists to the CDs and emulate a CD changer. Kind of weak control!
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Old 3rd July 2009, 12:22 PM   #27
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I have been digging in quite heavily again on this project. I am currently building a 13pin to 13pin break out box so that way we can use a logic analyzer to bit bang the bus and decode the Nak secret. which seems most likely to be a Sony secret more then a Nak secret as Nak used Sony chips for most of the CD control D/A functions etc. they used NEC microcontrollers and Sanyo IC's for everything else.

I managed to get a hold of an original service manual for the TD-45Z and for the MF-51 and while there were no major secrets revealed, there has been a tiny bit added to the pile here and there.

The Nak Decks work with the sony 10 disc changer so i would bet you could fool the nak deck into thinking you had a 99 disc changer for iPod control of play list's. but that's speculation. I have no doubt there will be some serious limitations controlling an iPod through the nak head unit. but all the basic commands should be workable.

1-Play/Pause
2-Track Up
3-Track Down
4-Disc (Playlist) up
5-Disc (Playlist) Down
6-Random
7-Repeat

Possibly
8-Track FF
9-track RW


And what I am really after, is to be able to build a translator that will send IR commands to my Delphi Skfi XM radio! Track U/D will be channel Up Down and Disc U/D will be Preset U/D that sort of thing! once i have the Nak Rosetta stone the rest is easy!

and, I want to play with building a translator box to work with Unilink/Ai-net cd changers!
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Old 25th July 2009, 12:58 AM   #28
bobduch is offline bobduch  United States
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Have any of you gents ever hardwired new rca output cables into a Nak HU?
I have a TD560. Was thinking about hardwiring some Cardas Crosslink to replace the Nak rca's.
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Old 25th July 2009, 07:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobduch
Have any of you gents ever hardwired new rca output cables into a Nak HU?
I have a TD560. Was thinking about hardwiring some Cardas Crosslink to replace the Nak rca's.
In all honesty it would not be worth it. while Nak decks are good. they are not THAT good! and if you are going to get into tweaking. there are a lot of other things i would do first before high end cables ever came into play. Upgrading op-amps, power supply, etc etc would come first. even then, it's still a Sony based car stereo! Don't get me wrong, i love my Nak(s) but save the Cardas cable for the high end home stuff where you have enough resolution to notice a real difference.
just my .02cents on the subject, your mileage may vary.
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Old 25th July 2009, 07:56 PM   #30
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Update on my earlier post. So far we have managed to decode the Nak protocol and have figured out how the Disc, track and Time information is transmitted and now just need to capture and decode the operational controls. I also picked up a very cool USBee SX Logic analyzer that will make this very much easier to do!


ZC
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