I have noticed that i get real sick, listening to loud deep bass in my car.
I do alot of driving and i warm my amps up for about 30 minutes and it takes about that long for the voice coils to reach there optimum temperature, so why is it that! on a long drive down the M6 i start to feel bored with the bass? Not sick of it just that its draining my enjoyment!
Its not the road noise, i have even tried different PSi in my tires.
I switch my amp feeding one 12 inch sub, and listen to my B&W componets instead.
I also have a gain control for the sub amp and i slowly turn it down as time goes on.
I think its the volume or the frequency that just drives me mad.
Has anybody any idea on how to listen to deep bass for a long exposure?
I know its not the music, i have tried so many subwoofers so is it something psychoacoustic in my head?
Any doctors know anything about short term bass exposure makes you sick?
I do alot of driving and i warm my amps up for about 30 minutes and it takes about that long for the voice coils to reach there optimum temperature, so why is it that! on a long drive down the M6 i start to feel bored with the bass? Not sick of it just that its draining my enjoyment!
Its not the road noise, i have even tried different PSi in my tires.
I switch my amp feeding one 12 inch sub, and listen to my B&W componets instead.
I also have a gain control for the sub amp and i slowly turn it down as time goes on.
I think its the volume or the frequency that just drives me mad.
Has anybody any idea on how to listen to deep bass for a long exposure?
I know its not the music, i have tried so many subwoofers so is it something psychoacoustic in my head?
Any doctors know anything about short term bass exposure makes you sick?
Could it simply be fatigue? Especially in an auto application it seems (but really anywhere) there is a tendency to emphasize the bass. As a result, the overall SPL is high to achieve whatever "reference" volume you prefer in the midrange. As a result, one quickly becomes fatigued and wishes to reduce the SPL in some way. Maybe by "turning down the sub" you are getting closer to a smooth integration between your sub and your mains.
I wonder if it could also be that the sub is making the overall sound a little muddy, which could be due to damping or how smoothly it integrates with the system. I think the less coherent the sound, the louder it must be to achieve acceptable dynamics (subjectively that is). As a result, I think less coherent systems are more likely to be fatiguing.
Maybe one of these alternatives is a place to start. Have you done a spectrum analysis to see if sub+mains FR are matching well?
I wonder if it could also be that the sub is making the overall sound a little muddy, which could be due to damping or how smoothly it integrates with the system. I think the less coherent the sound, the louder it must be to achieve acceptable dynamics (subjectively that is). As a result, I think less coherent systems are more likely to be fatiguing.
Maybe one of these alternatives is a place to start. Have you done a spectrum analysis to see if sub+mains FR are matching well?
Your right in everyway, integration is a key issue and i dont like car hi-fi in general for sound quality, my line of thinking is------
Cars are noise anyway, to over come the wind, road, traffic, and general sounds on the roads we need to have a little more bass than i would have in the home audio set up, But not much more, maybe 3 db than is accurate.
I have a 15 inch ATC subwoofers in my main room and it can created much better and deeper bass than my car system, and i have never been bored or sick with that! so am thinking is it me?
Am i a fuddy duddy now?
Does anybody else suffer from fituge as i do in a car?
I am not the only one as all my friends suffer the same effects and complain of this fituge, You know what the problem is we make subwoofers and its hard to sell something you cant stand to listen to!LOL
Cars are noise anyway, to over come the wind, road, traffic, and general sounds on the roads we need to have a little more bass than i would have in the home audio set up, But not much more, maybe 3 db than is accurate.
I have a 15 inch ATC subwoofers in my main room and it can created much better and deeper bass than my car system, and i have never been bored or sick with that! so am thinking is it me?
Am i a fuddy duddy now?
Does anybody else suffer from fituge as i do in a car?
I am not the only one as all my friends suffer the same effects and complain of this fituge, You know what the problem is we make subwoofers and its hard to sell something you cant stand to listen to!LOL
reply
Getting bored of bass untill it makes u sick has happened to me.
Like when u get that very boomy echoey one note bass going 'oom oom oom' all the time can give u a headace.
But also i've felt sick from a soundsystem in a car that hit so hard it felt like some was punching my chest and squeezing my throat.
And that was 1 of my crazy m8s who tried out 2 of his pa EV SB180 subscoop bass bins in his estate car.LOL
Getting bored of bass untill it makes u sick has happened to me.
Like when u get that very boomy echoey one note bass going 'oom oom oom' all the time can give u a headace.
But also i've felt sick from a soundsystem in a car that hit so hard it felt like some was punching my chest and squeezing my throat.
And that was 1 of my crazy m8s who tried out 2 of his pa EV SB180 subscoop bass bins in his estate car.LOL
Attachments
I get the same feeling you describe. I also get "bored" as you say, when listening to headphones in the same way.
I havent actually read the magazine article that describes the effect, but I read a webpage today with a circuit to counter it.
Dont know if this is related...
http://headwize.com/projects/cmoy1_prj.htm
I havent actually read the magazine article that describes the effect, but I read a webpage today with a circuit to counter it.
Dont know if this is related...
http://headwize.com/projects/cmoy1_prj.htm
I've heard of infrasonic weaponry before, but it's always seemed like more of an urban myth. However, these articles seem to point towards negative effects of subsonic frequencies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2309505.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993680
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999371
ensen
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2309505.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993680
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999371
ensen
There is a research company in my home town of Huntsville, AL that does a lot of testing for aerospace and government projects. They at one time had a huge transducer for creating pressure waves to test structural stability or something. Anyways, this device I'm told was capable of making everyone in the building sick if tuned down to the appropriate freq. Plus many people can get sick at concerts if standing too close to the subs on the floor, seen that more than once. So yes, it can physically make you ill.
Well my boss is always tell me about infrawave and how dangerous they are, If its so important to music why does it make me sick after a hour or so? The bass is very tight and sealed its just very loud at times, thats more me than anything else, The Subs are sealed not vented, so there is no port to blame,I also get sick with Headphones on for to long, but only the sealed back type. I am listing to brass band music and some drum and bass, they both make me wanna vomite after an hour or so.
Re: reply about 'makes u sick'
Bull said:Getting bored of bass untill it makes u sick has happened to me.
Like when u get that very boomy echoey one note bass going 'oom oom oom' all the time can give u a headace.
But also i've felt sick from a soundsystem in a car that hit so hard it felt like some was punching my chest and squeezing my throat.
Hi Bull--The reason you got sick, and in other ppls posts they got bored and then irritated...its because the infrasound freqs at 10 Hz are what the cops here in the states now use on rioters to make them either sick OR mess their pants! 10 cycles is known in certain circles to relax the spincter (your back door, so to speak) muscle, and therefore you cannot control your bowels...and poop right there on the spot. Now what a way to make the rioters go home! And the bloomin cops didnt even offer em any toilet paper! such bullies!
Next, if you mess around at 7 Hz...watch out. There is a LOT of danger between 7 and 8 Hz...and has been known to be a death freq. You hit just the right freq and *poof*--youre history. There are octaves of this in the MHz range, but we wont go there
Another thing, those deep bass notes--especially the ones that make you irritable or give you headaches--are literally turning your brain to jelly. No, Im NOT jerkin your chain...just the fax Jax!
Its been long known among the neurologist crowd that they would be seeing a LOT of customers when us kids with the booming bass bins got older...and our brains were a jumble of jelly--literally. Its happenin now...and will continue to happen as long as you subject yourself to high dB's of infrasound vibes.
I worked as a freelance photographer for Concerts West while in Austin, Texas USA...35 years ago. I did my best shots while standing on the stage (I had a pass) next to or in front of those huge speakers...and getting my brains blasted out. I wore earplugs, but my BODY was being pommeled to death by the bass speaker at chest-level. I hurt after the concerts, and it wasnt from those topless University of Texas babes pressing flesh into my back at the front of the stage! I finally had to quit that practice--standing next to speakers to shoot that is, not the babe pressings--and things were better body-pain-wise after those concerts.
The 'getting bored' part of the message I believe relates to this lower frequency putting you into an Alpha state. For more info, I did a Google search on "ALPHA BETA THETA DELTA RANGE" and found many great sites from that search, and one in particular by http://brain.web-us.com/thescience.htm had a LOT of specific info, and especially the first paragraph about Binaural Beats where "a pure tone of 400 Hz is presented to the right ear and a pure tone of 410 Hz is presented simultaneously to the left ear, an amplitude modulated standing wave of 10 Hz, the difference between the two tones, is experienced as the two wave forms mesh in and out of phase within the superior olivary nuclei." Go figure! You just got whacked with a 10 Hz wave---and you didnt even know it---but your body did! Nuff said. This is my second post on this forum.
Have a super day y'all. (for you mates out there--that means YOU.) Cheers!
About getting sick...again
Back in the 70's, I was in the Air Force in Austin, and my friends were in the 'communications shack', and most were audiophiles to the maxx. I got to see a LOT of really kewl sound systems that would cost thousands and could blow the walls out when turned up. No one got sick. Why? Because back THEN, we didnt have the subs, and rock groups werent doing the deep bass trip.
As a result of not having a lot of money (got $340 a month from Unka Sam--wupee!) I ended up building my own amps and preamp. I got 2 amp kits from (now defunct) Southwest Technical Products Co. in San Antonio, Texas. These were the "Tiger 01" models, which sported an IM distortion of POINT ZERO ONE! Talk about CLEAN! They were driving 60 watts RMS PER CHANNEL, and I had one for each Bose 901 speaker. These were the OLD pentagon-shaped 901's that had 2 angled panels of 4 midrange speakers on the back side, and one midrange coming out the front, to simulate the 8 to 1 ratio of reflected TO direct sound like a concert hall has. The preamp was a PAT-4 from Dynaco out of South Carolina, I believe. Cant remember--having a senior moment.
I ssspun a vinyl (on my Pioneer PL-51A Turntable) by Sammy Hagar of Montrose (later on to be with Van Halen) called ROCK CANDY, which has some HEAVY bass hits in the very beginning...and proceeded to crank up those Tiger amps...to 35% power level (they had real analog level meters on each one!) and the front window where one of the Bose was 'tuned' blew out 4 panes of glass when the bass notes hit! Oh Jeeez! Had to replace those before the apt. manager found out, but this got the attention of the fancy-dancy pilot upstairs! He prided himself on his B & O system, and always reminded me of how much it cost him--like Im impressed! Except for my Bose 901's ($675 in 1973!) the amps and preamp cost me $270 total. Haah! I know he paid over 4 grand for his system, and he couldnt even get it into his nifty Nissan 240Z-car! Vrrroooom!!
After that, I kept the power under 30% and kept the glass wavering juuust a tad, but not blowing glass out into the parking lot any more.
I think the lesson here is CLEAN, QUALITY SOUND versus... whatever...RULES. I had those 901's for 24 years before the rubber speaker mounts literally disintegrated and were just buzzing---no real sound at all. Thats what happens when Bose die. *sniffle*
One of these days...Im gonna get something just as good. Right now I have some decent 4 foot Sony's driven with 100 watt RMS per channel amps, but keep it waaay low cuz of the condo rules. The ppl down below tried to show off their little 'HipHop boom box' one day, and that was a fatal mistake. I had to show em who was boss...and cranked it with a few FUEL (first album) toonz...and that settled that. lol I followed with a lullabye by LINKIN PARK and opened up that wikked bass slider! OoohYeahhhh Sounded like the SWAT teams were trying to kick down the doors--or come thru the walls! They havent talked to me since...so guess it worked! <evil grin>
Laters!
Back in the 70's, I was in the Air Force in Austin, and my friends were in the 'communications shack', and most were audiophiles to the maxx. I got to see a LOT of really kewl sound systems that would cost thousands and could blow the walls out when turned up. No one got sick. Why? Because back THEN, we didnt have the subs, and rock groups werent doing the deep bass trip.
As a result of not having a lot of money (got $340 a month from Unka Sam--wupee!) I ended up building my own amps and preamp. I got 2 amp kits from (now defunct) Southwest Technical Products Co. in San Antonio, Texas. These were the "Tiger 01" models, which sported an IM distortion of POINT ZERO ONE! Talk about CLEAN! They were driving 60 watts RMS PER CHANNEL, and I had one for each Bose 901 speaker. These were the OLD pentagon-shaped 901's that had 2 angled panels of 4 midrange speakers on the back side, and one midrange coming out the front, to simulate the 8 to 1 ratio of reflected TO direct sound like a concert hall has. The preamp was a PAT-4 from Dynaco out of South Carolina, I believe. Cant remember--having a senior moment.
I ssspun a vinyl (on my Pioneer PL-51A Turntable) by Sammy Hagar of Montrose (later on to be with Van Halen) called ROCK CANDY, which has some HEAVY bass hits in the very beginning...and proceeded to crank up those Tiger amps...to 35% power level (they had real analog level meters on each one!) and the front window where one of the Bose was 'tuned' blew out 4 panes of glass when the bass notes hit! Oh Jeeez! Had to replace those before the apt. manager found out, but this got the attention of the fancy-dancy pilot upstairs! He prided himself on his B & O system, and always reminded me of how much it cost him--like Im impressed! Except for my Bose 901's ($675 in 1973!) the amps and preamp cost me $270 total. Haah! I know he paid over 4 grand for his system, and he couldnt even get it into his nifty Nissan 240Z-car! Vrrroooom!!
After that, I kept the power under 30% and kept the glass wavering juuust a tad, but not blowing glass out into the parking lot any more.
I think the lesson here is CLEAN, QUALITY SOUND versus... whatever...RULES. I had those 901's for 24 years before the rubber speaker mounts literally disintegrated and were just buzzing---no real sound at all. Thats what happens when Bose die. *sniffle*
One of these days...Im gonna get something just as good. Right now I have some decent 4 foot Sony's driven with 100 watt RMS per channel amps, but keep it waaay low cuz of the condo rules. The ppl down below tried to show off their little 'HipHop boom box' one day, and that was a fatal mistake. I had to show em who was boss...and cranked it with a few FUEL (first album) toonz...and that settled that. lol I followed with a lullabye by LINKIN PARK and opened up that wikked bass slider! OoohYeahhhh Sounded like the SWAT teams were trying to kick down the doors--or come thru the walls! They havent talked to me since...so guess it worked! <evil grin>
Laters!
Maybe a infra sonic filter is needed? in the input stage before the amps?
Love the stories about getting a Jelly brain from all the bass waves, I agree that there will be a lot of older men that will be mostly def in there mid 30 to 40s, but teenagers dont see how mortal we all are, I dont want any brown trousers but i like deep thunderous bass, not all the time! but it has its place. I agree modern music has more bass and modern subwoofers are all the rage, its getting away from the audiophile line but its making money, i think? as long as something makes money there will always be somebody selling it, even if its deadly bad for us.
Love the stories about getting a Jelly brain from all the bass waves, I agree that there will be a lot of older men that will be mostly def in there mid 30 to 40s, but teenagers dont see how mortal we all are, I dont want any brown trousers but i like deep thunderous bass, not all the time! but it has its place. I agree modern music has more bass and modern subwoofers are all the rage, its getting away from the audiophile line but its making money, i think? as long as something makes money there will always be somebody selling it, even if its deadly bad for us.
Jellawaves
Hi Paradise_Ice...Yes, I agree, an infra sonic filter is probably your best bet and much needed. A good friend of mine is now deaf in one ear and has about 30% hearing in the other. He was a roadie that liked to hang around those huge speakers on-stage and look kewl. That's what he got for 'lookin kewl'--saying "huh?" every other word now. NOT kewl!
The close confines and reverb efx in a car just multiply that sick feeling a lot more...and promote the 'jellybrain thang'. Maybe call it Jellawaves...are you Jellin? Huh? OhYeahhh...I be Jellin....
djQUAN---its the 'windows down' syndrome. good trick.
Hi Paradise_Ice...Yes, I agree, an infra sonic filter is probably your best bet and much needed. A good friend of mine is now deaf in one ear and has about 30% hearing in the other. He was a roadie that liked to hang around those huge speakers on-stage and look kewl. That's what he got for 'lookin kewl'--saying "huh?" every other word now. NOT kewl!
The close confines and reverb efx in a car just multiply that sick feeling a lot more...and promote the 'jellybrain thang'. Maybe call it Jellawaves...are you Jellin? Huh? OhYeahhh...I be Jellin....
djQUAN---its the 'windows down' syndrome. good trick.
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