I am currently in the process of restoring a 79 camaro. I plan on doing something fun with the audio in it. Here's the catch, i'm looking to modify things in the car as little as possible, and would like to get a decent soundstage, and hopefully an ample amount of spl's (parties in the woods,etc...).
My current idea is to use tweeters on the molding on each side of the windsheild. Then use horns (maybe) under the dash. I realize it's probably gonna be tough to find a decent horn for this. I'd like em to be wider than higher (2x10 rather than 4x5) My question about this setup is for the ~500-800 hertz and below range, assuming i can get a horn to go that low (or lower if possible). I was thinking to use 5-8" woofers in the back on the rear deck. How bad might this ruin the imaging? (Trying to rely on the high pitched sounds are where the ear locates thing) If it's gonna do poorly, are there any suggestions anyone can provide? Also, recommendations on horns would be nice.
Since at the moment , this is all ideas, being the car isn't done, I haven't got much thought on budget, but, buying parts over time, it could be pretty high, if necessary.
As for other ideas for this, I'm thinking on buying or building active crossovers and running seperate amps/channels to everything. For the head unit, I don't care for anything fancy, only things I'd like to try for is a decent eq, high voltage pre-amp outputs, 24-bit dac, and a way to adjust the source level, a unit without all the extra bells and whistles would be nice (and cheaper) Haven't thought much on a sub as of yet, but I just wanna shoot for a nice flat response on that.
Comments? Suggestions?? Thanks.
My current idea is to use tweeters on the molding on each side of the windsheild. Then use horns (maybe) under the dash. I realize it's probably gonna be tough to find a decent horn for this. I'd like em to be wider than higher (2x10 rather than 4x5) My question about this setup is for the ~500-800 hertz and below range, assuming i can get a horn to go that low (or lower if possible). I was thinking to use 5-8" woofers in the back on the rear deck. How bad might this ruin the imaging? (Trying to rely on the high pitched sounds are where the ear locates thing) If it's gonna do poorly, are there any suggestions anyone can provide? Also, recommendations on horns would be nice.
Since at the moment , this is all ideas, being the car isn't done, I haven't got much thought on budget, but, buying parts over time, it could be pretty high, if necessary.
As for other ideas for this, I'm thinking on buying or building active crossovers and running seperate amps/channels to everything. For the head unit, I don't care for anything fancy, only things I'd like to try for is a decent eq, high voltage pre-amp outputs, 24-bit dac, and a way to adjust the source level, a unit without all the extra bells and whistles would be nice (and cheaper) Haven't thought much on a sub as of yet, but I just wanna shoot for a nice flat response on that.
Comments? Suggestions?? Thanks.
Anyone?? I am open to any and all suggestions, I mainly don't want to modify things alot. I'd like to go for decent imaging if possible.
Also, instead of putting the mid-low woofers on the rear deck, what about under the dash, facing downward? Not too sure all that could fit under there, but it could be an option.
Also, instead of putting the mid-low woofers on the rear deck, what about under the dash, facing downward? Not too sure all that could fit under there, but it could be an option.
Well, no on has responded, but I'll keep updating, in case of any suggestions.
Right now for the head unit, I am really liking/considering the Rockford Fosgate Platinum 2000. A very nice piece.
As for amps, I'll probably go with U.S. acoustics line.
The major goal I want to achieve with this, is to have my speakers in front of me, to get the best soundstage as I can. The trick to this is, of course, doing it in a way that I won't need to modify my interior too much. I'd like some speakers with decent/high sensitivity, one of the reasons I thought of attempting horns.
I am now thinking of maybe putting the tweeters on the pillars, like before. Then use maybe 4-5" mids under the dash, facing downward. Would it be possible to find a midrange driver with a wide polar response? So that I could get away with facing them downward.
I'm trying to think of a way to do it so things are fairly hidden. Though, I'm still not sure where all to go. Well, I'll keep the updates.
Right now for the head unit, I am really liking/considering the Rockford Fosgate Platinum 2000. A very nice piece.
As for amps, I'll probably go with U.S. acoustics line.
The major goal I want to achieve with this, is to have my speakers in front of me, to get the best soundstage as I can. The trick to this is, of course, doing it in a way that I won't need to modify my interior too much. I'd like some speakers with decent/high sensitivity, one of the reasons I thought of attempting horns.
I am now thinking of maybe putting the tweeters on the pillars, like before. Then use maybe 4-5" mids under the dash, facing downward. Would it be possible to find a midrange driver with a wide polar response? So that I could get away with facing them downward.
I'm trying to think of a way to do it so things are fairly hidden. Though, I'm still not sure where all to go. Well, I'll keep the updates.
Going back a few years...
'79 Camaro, eh? I used to install in those all the time. The usual system that sounded pretty good was to use 8" free air woofers in the rear deck - one install I did used six tens (three in the deck, three behind the seat - but that's extreme. Stuff was all Kicker at the time, but I would research other non-car audio brands.
The doors are tricky. The window mechanism gets in the way of all the good spots (unless you have power windows). With PW, you can get a high mount on the door (inline with the instrument cluster) and pop a tweeter in each A pillar. Horn under the dash work, but there is VERY little room on the passenger side for the horn driver. Image Dynamics is the company to check out for these. Do not buy the Piezo Driver units - they are awful. The CD2 Comps were used most of the time, but I don't know if they're still available.
When doing door and A pillar mounted stuff, paint the grilles/housings of the speakers to blend. You can perf the panel, but it takes forever and looks like those old vinyl grilles used on school buses. However, it would befit a late 70's GM car.
On the extreme side, I remember a installation featured in a Car Audio rag back in the early 90s that had two 5.25" Rockford mids mounted in the bottom of the front bench seat!! He angled them forward to provide some form of imaging, but who knows how well that worked. Just some thoughts (I've never tried it!)
'79 Camaro, eh? I used to install in those all the time. The usual system that sounded pretty good was to use 8" free air woofers in the rear deck - one install I did used six tens (three in the deck, three behind the seat - but that's extreme. Stuff was all Kicker at the time, but I would research other non-car audio brands.
The doors are tricky. The window mechanism gets in the way of all the good spots (unless you have power windows). With PW, you can get a high mount on the door (inline with the instrument cluster) and pop a tweeter in each A pillar. Horn under the dash work, but there is VERY little room on the passenger side for the horn driver. Image Dynamics is the company to check out for these. Do not buy the Piezo Driver units - they are awful. The CD2 Comps were used most of the time, but I don't know if they're still available.
When doing door and A pillar mounted stuff, paint the grilles/housings of the speakers to blend. You can perf the panel, but it takes forever and looks like those old vinyl grilles used on school buses. However, it would befit a late 70's GM car.
On the extreme side, I remember a installation featured in a Car Audio rag back in the early 90s that had two 5.25" Rockford mids mounted in the bottom of the front bench seat!! He angled them forward to provide some form of imaging, but who knows how well that worked. Just some thoughts (I've never tried it!)
In my '79 Formula I stuck with the 6x9s in the back. I also put 6.5" woofers in the kick panels and 5.25" coaxial speakers in the sail panels. Like that, it sounded good.. however..
10" speakers would be a HARD fit under the rear deck, I doubt it's even possible.. you'd have to go further back to do that. (If you had speakers mounted in the rear deck - WHICH YOU DO WANT!).
A quartet of 8" speakers with a low Fs in a sealed box under the rear deck (right behind the seat) would work great.
Maybe something like the Dayton 8s? I think about .35cuft/speaker is considered optimal for the Dayton 8s in a sealed box, so that'd give you 1.4cu ft total. They should start falling off around 55Hz or so, but you have cabin gain so you're actually alright to around 30Hz or so (getting close to Fs).. which is plenty low. Power handling won't be great, I think around 75w/speaker.. but efficiency should be around 94dB REAL (combined), not like some car audio speakers which include cabin gain in their efficiency measurement! That means you could hit around 118dB (300w -> 94dB). If you could only fit 3 8s in the box, you'd drop down to 92.7dB efficiency and 225w peak power.. that'd give you 116dB.
I'd do that with 1 two channel amp (2 ohm stable in BTL!) for the 8" speakers low passed at around 200Hz, then a four channel highpassed @ 200Hz for the rear speakers. Or you could combine the left/right in a crossover before the amp and have two outputs - then you could just have a two channel amp that's stable into 4 ohms on each channel.
As far as the fronts, if you did have stereo front speakers (not very common in 79, much more common in 80-81) and you already have the bezels that they mount to, you could use a pretty low powered amp with a high-pass for the pair (or quartet if you do the kick panel thing) of front speakers.
The kick panel speakers are well hidden, so they don't look tacky like putting them in the console or in the doors. You may even want to consider aimable tweeters mounted on the a-pillars.
10" speakers would be a HARD fit under the rear deck, I doubt it's even possible.. you'd have to go further back to do that. (If you had speakers mounted in the rear deck - WHICH YOU DO WANT!).
A quartet of 8" speakers with a low Fs in a sealed box under the rear deck (right behind the seat) would work great.
Maybe something like the Dayton 8s? I think about .35cuft/speaker is considered optimal for the Dayton 8s in a sealed box, so that'd give you 1.4cu ft total. They should start falling off around 55Hz or so, but you have cabin gain so you're actually alright to around 30Hz or so (getting close to Fs).. which is plenty low. Power handling won't be great, I think around 75w/speaker.. but efficiency should be around 94dB REAL (combined), not like some car audio speakers which include cabin gain in their efficiency measurement! That means you could hit around 118dB (300w -> 94dB). If you could only fit 3 8s in the box, you'd drop down to 92.7dB efficiency and 225w peak power.. that'd give you 116dB.
I'd do that with 1 two channel amp (2 ohm stable in BTL!) for the 8" speakers low passed at around 200Hz, then a four channel highpassed @ 200Hz for the rear speakers. Or you could combine the left/right in a crossover before the amp and have two outputs - then you could just have a two channel amp that's stable into 4 ohms on each channel.
As far as the fronts, if you did have stereo front speakers (not very common in 79, much more common in 80-81) and you already have the bezels that they mount to, you could use a pretty low powered amp with a high-pass for the pair (or quartet if you do the kick panel thing) of front speakers.
The kick panel speakers are well hidden, so they don't look tacky like putting them in the console or in the doors. You may even want to consider aimable tweeters mounted on the a-pillars.
Actually, they'll drop right in from the top! It'll easily accommodate a pair of 10's, or a pair of 8's plus one twelve, or four 8's. Of course, that requires cutting sheet metal, but you can make a grille to quietly cover the whole thing. You can also mount four 10's against the rear seat with no modifications beyond screw holes to affix the baffle.
I did a pair of 10" coaxials for a friend back in '83 or so using Becker drivers, mounting the tweeter in the center of the 10" metal grill. Using a 25Wx2 Alphasonik amp on those, and a complementary Alphasonik EQ/booster on a pair of 4" coax's in the doors, he measured a respectable 118dB in a local crank 'em up contest, and even sounded better than most of the entries.
Digression aside, it's very easy to get good bottom end in those cars with little effort. IMHO, don't waste your time on a box. IB-style works like a charm, especially with 10's, the trunk ain't that big.
Everyone seems to be in agreement about the pains up front.
I don't remember the doors that well, except that manual windows left little options. Some models would accept a 6" speaker in the door, but it could get perilously close to smacking the door sill as you closed the door.
If that (or large kick panel speakers as JSD suggested) is an option, it may prove easier to interface front/rear speakers in the low midbass region and use a two or three way system up front.
I can remember chuckling about that picture!!!
Tim
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