What brands of speakers are you looking at... Its hard to get much quality feedback from car audio forums other than " I like this because... ". Not much science... But forums like this one can often be too much science.
Class D amps are a real option. You save a lot of battery power and have a compact unit...
They can sound as good as many class A/B which are only 30 to 50% efficient compared to class D's 85 to 90 % efficiency.
Dean
Class D amps are a real option. You save a lot of battery power and have a compact unit...
They can sound as good as many class A/B which are only 30 to 50% efficient compared to class D's 85 to 90 % efficiency.
Dean
Head Unit
Most of the threads I am coming acrost are a few years old, so nothing too solid on anything that has come out in the last 4 or 5 years. seems the economy hit the hifi car audio world pretty hard. Seems like not very many people have been dumping money into their car stereos for the last few years.
But anyways... would a 24bit DAC still be considered high end? or adiquate considereing my buget?
It turns out to be more difficult than I thought to find a head unit WITHOUT all the extras like time allignment and all sorts of options for eq. while still being a good quality piece. I don't want to go to cheep on a head unit that doesn't have all the bells and whistles and end up with the head unit being the "choke point" for the sq in my car.
Also I kind of wish all the head units werent so flashy. a nice polished aluminum color or even black with a logical and simple button layout would be nice... I know the right one is out there somewhere, I just need to find it!
Most of the threads I am coming acrost are a few years old, so nothing too solid on anything that has come out in the last 4 or 5 years. seems the economy hit the hifi car audio world pretty hard. Seems like not very many people have been dumping money into their car stereos for the last few years.
But anyways... would a 24bit DAC still be considered high end? or adiquate considereing my buget?
It turns out to be more difficult than I thought to find a head unit WITHOUT all the extras like time allignment and all sorts of options for eq. while still being a good quality piece. I don't want to go to cheep on a head unit that doesn't have all the bells and whistles and end up with the head unit being the "choke point" for the sq in my car.
Also I kind of wish all the head units werent so flashy. a nice polished aluminum color or even black with a logical and simple button layout would be nice... I know the right one is out there somewhere, I just need to find it!
Yea, there are plenty of reccomendations on speakers. most are a little suspect with no real reason as to why they like them or specs to support that they perform well. I have not begun to develope my own preference twards speakers as of yet, there aren't any high end audio shops in my area that I can go listen to, I know my sony speakers sucked, but then again are far from their top of the line speakers. I will make a road trip one day to a place I can sit and have a good listen to a variety of speakers... I wish I could take them for a test drive in my car, that would be awesome.
for a sub though I have found the FI infinite baffle series that I quite like, IB315 - Fi Car Audio Store but in all reality I can't tell for sure if it is worth a damn. or would give me the response I want with such a big cone. maybe a 12 inch would be better.
I have also looked at using a pair of DD's 8 inch speakers 1500 Series | DD Audio to put in a sealed or ported box... I am a little worried about being able to get the sound into the cabbin from the trunk though, I wonder if stacking the ports and aiming them both through my armrest hole would be effective. I don't know if they would suffer the same as my infinity 8 inches when put in sealed boxes, which I get the most sound from by pointing strait up or twards the back of my car. but then I loose some of the kick and quick response that I love.
for a sub though I have found the FI infinite baffle series that I quite like, IB315 - Fi Car Audio Store but in all reality I can't tell for sure if it is worth a damn. or would give me the response I want with such a big cone. maybe a 12 inch would be better.
I have also looked at using a pair of DD's 8 inch speakers 1500 Series | DD Audio to put in a sealed or ported box... I am a little worried about being able to get the sound into the cabbin from the trunk though, I wonder if stacking the ports and aiming them both through my armrest hole would be effective. I don't know if they would suffer the same as my infinity 8 inches when put in sealed boxes, which I get the most sound from by pointing strait up or twards the back of my car. but then I loose some of the kick and quick response that I love.
MiniDSP: An excellent alternative! - Car Audio | DIYMA.com
Not sure if you have read this thread so thought I would post it.
I wouldn't point only the ports through the arm rest, you would only get the port output without the drivers direct output. Not great.
I have never enjoyed any of sony's gear so I am biased in that regard.
You could start looking at Peerless (subs/MIDs/tweeters) and Vifa (mids/tweeters..
The peerless xls subs are cost effective and very well rated around here.
Dean
Not sure if you have read this thread so thought I would post it.
I wouldn't point only the ports through the arm rest, you would only get the port output without the drivers direct output. Not great.
I have never enjoyed any of sony's gear so I am biased in that regard.
You could start looking at Peerless (subs/MIDs/tweeters) and Vifa (mids/tweeters..
The peerless xls subs are cost effective and very well rated around here.
Dean
Sound Deadening
Well, I placed my order for some raamat BTX II sound deadening. Also completely removed the interior of my car, It is incredibly loud without all the insulated trim panels! but I am enjoying the performance aspect of removing 250lbs out of my car. The only thing left is half my dash and a driver seat... fun stuff! after I get the deadening in my old system will go back in for a few weeks while I finish planning and ordering my new system. This will give me a good opportunity to compare and comment on the effectiveness of the application of sound deadening in my car.
Well, I placed my order for some raamat BTX II sound deadening. Also completely removed the interior of my car, It is incredibly loud without all the insulated trim panels! but I am enjoying the performance aspect of removing 250lbs out of my car. The only thing left is half my dash and a driver seat... fun stuff! after I get the deadening in my old system will go back in for a few weeks while I finish planning and ordering my new system. This will give me a good opportunity to compare and comment on the effectiveness of the application of sound deadening in my car.
No speaker Ideas yet, but I just discoverd the MS-8 signal processor/amp from JBL. I was looking at adding a center channel to my system (I just removed the nav screen and it is a pervect mounting place for a midrange speaker and/or tweeter. The MS-8's software can generate an audio signal from stereo inputs that represents a true center channel. I am currently doing lots of reading on it, its pretty awesome. also it's built in amplifier might just be powerful enough to run some of my speakers. It is and 8 channel amp with 18watts per channel at 4 ohms. 30 watts at 2 ohms. would anyone sugest going with lower power but very sensative speakers to use that amplifier? It would certainly save a lot of $$ space and weight. even if the cost is the same after factoring in more expensive speakers I would like haveing fewer components.
I tried looking at the peerles and vifa speakers but their websites I found were pretty overwelming and unorginized. I don't really know where to start =(
I tried looking at the peerles and vifa speakers but their websites I found were pretty overwelming and unorginized. I don't really know where to start =(
Have you found docs on the ms8 you could link that has full specs?
I always wished somebody would release a clean looking HU as well.. They all look like teenage fashion accessories.
I am hoping some other members might pitch in with opinions on decent drivers but it seems to be just you and me mate. Car audio isn't what it used to be...
I always wished somebody would release a clean looking HU as well.. They all look like teenage fashion accessories.
I am hoping some other members might pitch in with opinions on decent drivers but it seems to be just you and me mate. Car audio isn't what it used to be...
Have you found docs on the ms8 you could link that has full specs?
I always wished somebody would release a clean looking HU as well.. They all look like teenage fashion accessories.
I am hoping some other members might pitch in with opinions on decent drivers but it seems to be just you and me mate. Car audio isn't what it used to be...
I always wished somebody would release a clean looking HU as well.. They all look like teenage fashion accessories.
I am hoping some other members might pitch in with opinions on decent drivers but it seems to be just you and me mate. Car audio isn't what it used to be...
I was going to do the mini DSP thing in my car, but took the easy way out and bought a Pioneer DEH-80PRS instead. Not quite as flexible as a fully programmable DSP, but it's enough for my needs. The auto setup feature with the mic saves a lot of time and headaches.
A lot of people complain about the simple display and awkward menu system, but it doesn't bother me at all. I don't have a need to change sound settings while I'm driving and I use the HU exlusively for steaming music from my phone over bluetooth. I basically just use it as a volume control. Very happy with the purchase.
A lot of people complain about the simple display and awkward menu system, but it doesn't bother me at all. I don't have a need to change sound settings while I'm driving and I use the HU exlusively for steaming music from my phone over bluetooth. I basically just use it as a volume control. Very happy with the purchase.
I keep circling back to the DEH-80PRS also, but for as much time, money and effort I am putting into this I want to end up with what I really want... Also since I am doing a 3 way front, Pioneer's radio isn't a very good fit, I would be better off with their DEX-P99RS, but I don't really want to blow half my budget on a head unit. It is a shame that car audio isn't as big as it used to be. There aren't even install shops anywhere near me, besides best buy. I went there for recommendations for my previous system, they were much less than helpful... ANYWAYS. the MS-8's spec sheet for the built in amplifier is not very detailed that I have found. MS-8 | A complete, powered DSP-based solution for upgrading the sound in any factory-installed or aftermarket audio system | JBL US I am digging through the owner's manual right now http://www.jbl.com/images/media/MS_8_OM_EN.pdf , it is extremely detailed, the set up seems pretty tedious but looks like it will let me do everything I want to do, It is an 8 channel crossover in which I can set crossover slopes and frequencies, with the added advantage of being able to add a center channel. or I can use rear fill speakers in by back doors, the software seems pretty advanced and will essentially give me 7.1 digital surround sound. Now to try and find the downside of the system and see how I feel afterwards. Confidentially I have been optimistic before, only to find a deal breaker hidden in the details.
Subs! and a Mid bass
I think I found my subwoofers for my little project. I came accrost AE (acoustic elegance)'s infinite baffle subwoofer. the IB15HT 4 ohm. the 4 ohm is a modified version of their home theater model that is a little more efficient in a car audio environment. Quote from them:
[(Many have asked about the possibility of using the IB15's in an automotive environment. While they work reasonably well, there are a few things we wanted to do to make a more suited IB15 for automotive use. We switched to a 4ohm coil and lowered the mass to get a driver with somewhat lower Q, higher efficiency, and a rolloff that will match better with the typical cabin gain in a vehicle.
Related posts:
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...php?f=3&t=1647
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie....php?f=2&t=369
Auto-IB15-4 :
Fs: 20.4Hz
Qms: 4.5
Vas: 387L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 152g
Rms: 4.35
Xmax: 18.5mm
Sd: 825sqcm
Vd: 3.05L
Qes: .45
Re: 2.7ohm
Z: 4ohm
Le: .163mH
Pe: 300W
Qts: .41
1W SPL: 90.6dB
The response as stated begins to roll off higher in frequency. There is also several db more efficiency and sensitivity than the 8ohm home theater IB drivers. Potential is there for some serious output as well. Most vehicles will see a high level of cabin gain below 30hz. Several vehicles Deon measured a few years ago show around 35dB at 20hz. A single driver models to show almost 108dB at 20hz. Figuring in the 35dB of cabin gain you would see levels of 142dB at 20hz with a single driver and only 300W! This is some very serious output, especially if using multiple drivers.
Price on the Auto IB15-4 is the same as the home theater IB15's at $129 each. They are currently ready to order. They should be on the online store soon. In the meantime give us a call or email if interested.
John
************************************************** *****************************
Acoustic Elegance/AE Speakers
1825 Mills St
Green Bay, WI 54302)]]
Looks like its pretty much exactly what I am looking for.
Seeing as my airconditioning does not opperate without my navigation system installed, A center chanel is not possible =( looks like i'll just have a boring 3 way front WITHOUT a center chanel
Midbasseerless 830875 6 1/2"Nomex cone HDS woofer. I am sure some of that means something to someone. What is means to me is a woofer well suited to a 3 way front.
Still looking and open to sugestions for midrange and tweeters! these midbass woofers might have to go pretty low considering my driver side midbase is probably around 60 deg or more off axis and I think I will cross it over arround 1kHZ. For this reason I want to go with as large of a midrange as possible. I think I can fit a 4" without having to cut off my left leg to drive my car.
Here is this fancy colorful thing for the midbasses hahaha
On another note, my damn sound deadening has not come in after 5 days. im glad I paid for 2 day shipping so I could install it LAST weekend Driving arround with no radio only one working window (door pannels with window controlls are out) and only a driver seat is getting very old. On the other hand I got invited to a drag race this weekend so I might as well leave my car stripped until then. wheeee!
I think I found my subwoofers for my little project. I came accrost AE (acoustic elegance)'s infinite baffle subwoofer. the IB15HT 4 ohm. the 4 ohm is a modified version of their home theater model that is a little more efficient in a car audio environment. Quote from them:
[(Many have asked about the possibility of using the IB15's in an automotive environment. While they work reasonably well, there are a few things we wanted to do to make a more suited IB15 for automotive use. We switched to a 4ohm coil and lowered the mass to get a driver with somewhat lower Q, higher efficiency, and a rolloff that will match better with the typical cabin gain in a vehicle.
Related posts:
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...php?f=3&t=1647
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie....php?f=2&t=369
Auto-IB15-4 :
Fs: 20.4Hz
Qms: 4.5
Vas: 387L
Cms: .4mm/N
Mms: 152g
Rms: 4.35
Xmax: 18.5mm
Sd: 825sqcm
Vd: 3.05L
Qes: .45
Re: 2.7ohm
Z: 4ohm
Le: .163mH
Pe: 300W
Qts: .41
1W SPL: 90.6dB
The response as stated begins to roll off higher in frequency. There is also several db more efficiency and sensitivity than the 8ohm home theater IB drivers. Potential is there for some serious output as well. Most vehicles will see a high level of cabin gain below 30hz. Several vehicles Deon measured a few years ago show around 35dB at 20hz. A single driver models to show almost 108dB at 20hz. Figuring in the 35dB of cabin gain you would see levels of 142dB at 20hz with a single driver and only 300W! This is some very serious output, especially if using multiple drivers.
Price on the Auto IB15-4 is the same as the home theater IB15's at $129 each. They are currently ready to order. They should be on the online store soon. In the meantime give us a call or email if interested.
John
************************************************** *****************************
Acoustic Elegance/AE Speakers
1825 Mills St
Green Bay, WI 54302)]]
Looks like its pretty much exactly what I am looking for.
Seeing as my airconditioning does not opperate without my navigation system installed, A center chanel is not possible =( looks like i'll just have a boring 3 way front WITHOUT a center chanel
Midbass
eerless 830875 6 1/2"Nomex cone HDS woofer. I am sure some of that means something to someone. What is means to me is a woofer well suited to a 3 way front.Still looking and open to sugestions for midrange and tweeters! these midbass woofers might have to go pretty low considering my driver side midbase is probably around 60 deg or more off axis and I think I will cross it over arround 1kHZ. For this reason I want to go with as large of a midrange as possible. I think I can fit a 4" without having to cut off my left leg to drive my car.
Here is this fancy colorful thing for the midbasses hahaha
On another note, my damn sound deadening has not come in after 5 days. im glad I paid for 2 day shipping so I could install it LAST weekend
Driving arround with no radio only one working window (door pannels with window controlls are out) and only a driver seat is getting very old. On the other hand I got invited to a drag race this weekend so I might as well leave my car stripped until then. wheeee!huh, just found some other AE infinite baffle subs. apparently they have a whole line of subs dedicated to automotive infinite baffle. pretty awesome! they have 10, 12 and 15 inch IB subs. I Might want to go with 2 12" instead of a 15. whats your guys's oppinion on the matter? the 15"I could aim through my armrest hole. but the hole is only 10 inches wide and 16 tall. so that might limit its effectiveness. the 2 12" would either be firing backwards or strait into my very thick and well insulated back seats. I might be able to modify my deck lid for 2 or even 3 10". the factory sub was a shallow mounted IB 10 inch bose speaker. I don't know how it sounded because it was blown and disconnected when I got the car.
Any votes for 3 10's in the deck lid? significant reinforcement would need to be done. but might have a pretty good result... hmmmmm.....
Any votes for 3 10's in the deck lid? significant reinforcement would need to be done. but might have a pretty good result... hmmmmm.....
well, I got pretty far into sound deadening last weekend. I figured I would take my car out to the track for one last hoorah before it gains a whole ton of weight. It was a lot of fun. might have to find myself a dedicated track car.
Anyways. raamat BTXII. Seems like a pretty great product, except that I purchased it with the fastest available shipping method expecting to get it by that weekend. (on a tuesday) Well, I got it the NEXT friday. who knows why it took so long. or why USPS didn't even bother knocking on my door, they just left a note saying they missed me in my mailbox... pretty fantastic. (not) SO! 4 sheets of sound deadening in each front door and 3 in the rears so far, I can't yet comment on the overall improvement since I have no stereo, no carpet, no decklid or back seat. so it is still incredibly loud. Putting my head next to the door though, it seems pretty damn quiet. I am excited to hear the overall result.
Now speakers. I really have no idea what I want to do for midrange speakers! I really like the silver flutes midbass or the Dayton Audio RS180-4 or Peerless 830875
For my tweets im looking at Vifa XT25SC90-04 .
Before I buy any of those though I think I am beter off to find a midrange and install it so I can see exactly where the other speakers need to pick up the slack.
Anyways. raamat BTXII. Seems like a pretty great product, except that I purchased it with the fastest available shipping method expecting to get it by that weekend. (on a tuesday) Well, I got it the NEXT friday. who knows why it took so long. or why USPS didn't even bother knocking on my door, they just left a note saying they missed me in my mailbox... pretty fantastic. (not) SO! 4 sheets of sound deadening in each front door and 3 in the rears so far, I can't yet comment on the overall improvement since I have no stereo, no carpet, no decklid or back seat. so it is still incredibly loud. Putting my head next to the door though, it seems pretty damn quiet. I am excited to hear the overall result.
Now speakers. I really have no idea what I want to do for midrange speakers! I really like the silver flutes midbass or the Dayton Audio RS180-4 or Peerless 830875
For my tweets im looking at Vifa XT25SC90-04 .
Before I buy any of those though I think I am beter off to find a midrange and install it so I can see exactly where the other speakers need to pick up the slack.
welp, I just went ahead and bought the speakers that I was pretty sure I would end up with anyway. I bought the Vifa XT25SC90-04 tweeters that will go in custom sphears mounted on my A- Pillars. and I bought Dayton Audio RS180-4 midbass. I will also be purchasing the Dayton Audio EMM-6 microphone and the supporting hardware (OSP USB Microphone Adapter w/ Phantom Power) and some true RTA spectrum analysis software. This way I can install the components Ive already purchased using my old amps (will be a very simple 2 way system for the time being) and analyze what I am missing using RTA software, Maybe then I can get a clear picture of what I should buy for a midrange. The first of july is my delivery date for pretty much everything and I am terribly excited!
I second the "fire the sub backwards" comment, I have JL 12W7 that was side firing and I almost blew a gasket in how upset I was with the sound considering the cost... turned the sub around and amplified my output many decibels and cleaned up the sound considerably, we are talking BIG difference in where you place your sub. My sound waves were canceling out and I had way too little output plus a clanging sound, now with it rear firing its clear as day!
I am trying to keep a functioning trunk and keep weight down a little bit, I am pretty dead set on an infinite baffle set up for the sub. but right now its the amplifiers that are really holding me up. I still don't have any crossovers either, I thought about using the ones built into my current amps, but the high pass filter only goes to 500HZ which is pretty much useless for my tweeters.
What I still need: crossover system, (miniDSP or otherwise) and 7 channels worth of amplifiers.
I am trying to find the cheepest way to fulfil those requirements right now. the Zapco DC-656 is a 6 channel amplifier that has a built in fully functional electronic DSP, which is great. unfortunately it costs $1500. which is pretty much out of my price range. I could afford it but there is no way my system would leave me satasfied. horrible case of buyer's remorce right there... but then again, miniDSP is $300 and I still need amplifiers.
JL has a decently priced 6 channel amp but I don't think I will be satasfied with the sound quality. I should state that by no means am I needing to go with a 6 channel amp. I could do 3 2 channel amps for my front stage also... or a 4 and a 2.
Can anyone PLEASE help me come up with some sort of solution?
What I still need: crossover system, (miniDSP or otherwise) and 7 channels worth of amplifiers.
I am trying to find the cheepest way to fulfil those requirements right now. the Zapco DC-656 is a 6 channel amplifier that has a built in fully functional electronic DSP, which is great. unfortunately it costs $1500. which is pretty much out of my price range. I could afford it but there is no way my system would leave me satasfied. horrible case of buyer's remorce right there... but then again, miniDSP is $300 and I still need amplifiers.
JL has a decently priced 6 channel amp but I don't think I will be satasfied with the sound quality. I should state that by no means am I needing to go with a 6 channel amp. I could do 3 2 channel amps for my front stage also... or a 4 and a 2.
Can anyone PLEASE help me come up with some sort of solution?
mini DSP is purchased. I couldn't see a cost effective way arround it... SO! all I need now are some amps and a sub. I am going to do some tests with the subs I already have to see how I like a sub firing through my skii pass through and also firing through the deck lid. Hopefuly by the end of this weekend I will have my midbass and my tweets installed. and finaly through some pics up on here!
P.S. still looking for advice on amplifiers. =)
P.S. still looking for advice on amplifiers. =)
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