Hi guys, quick question, any input appreciated :
My lexus is 300 has an integrated "amplified speaker setup" its all OEM just bought the vehicule.
The sound is really good in the front of the vehicule but the rear stock 6x9 struggle to satisfy my ear.
After reading and doing some searching on the web seems as though toyota wired 4 wires per speaker, in the sense that the rear 6x9's have a separate signal for the tweeter part, and a separate one for the "woofer".
I ordered a pair of Kenwood 4way speakers the headache is that it has one input, how would I go about getting something reasonable with this wiring setup?
Thanks.
My lexus is 300 has an integrated "amplified speaker setup" its all OEM just bought the vehicule.
The sound is really good in the front of the vehicule but the rear stock 6x9 struggle to satisfy my ear.
After reading and doing some searching on the web seems as though toyota wired 4 wires per speaker, in the sense that the rear 6x9's have a separate signal for the tweeter part, and a separate one for the "woofer".
I ordered a pair of Kenwood 4way speakers the headache is that it has one input, how would I go about getting something reasonable with this wiring setup?
Thanks.
I don't know if you guys can see this link but here is what it looks like
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/aznmagic3/lexus 08/antons016.jpg
You can see the two separate wires coming out of each speaker, I was thinking maybe actually hacking the new 6x9's I got used off ebay as to where I would manually separate the tweeters from the woofer by making them two separate circuits... any input on that?
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/aznmagic3/lexus 08/antons016.jpg
You can see the two separate wires coming out of each speaker, I was thinking maybe actually hacking the new 6x9's I got used off ebay as to where I would manually separate the tweeters from the woofer by making them two separate circuits... any input on that?
WOW! Those things look like they would sound horrible. Lol. Yes separating the wires running to the woofer and the tweets on the new 6x9s would be preferable. If you don't then the factory amp would be putting out low frequency to the tweets and if hooked up to the high outputs on the factory amp then you will be suffering in the woofer section as the amp will cut all low frequencies. Making the woofer like a loudspeaker instead of a woofer. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the help guys ! I picked up some Kenwood KFC-6989ie 4 ways off ebay, can't wait to try them, I hope they'll be a significant improvement.
Ya so basically separating them would mean I cut the wires coming through the woofer, weld them back together so that the woofer is in an individual circuit with the low frequency poles.
And same idea for the tweeters, since its a "3 piece" tweeter, I guess they already have their crossover setup integrated so what would it change if I just put ALL 4 wires on the Kenwood speakers (2 x + and 2 x -) wouldn't all the sounds come through and the kenwood's setup would separate the sounds on its own as it would on a regular setup?
Ya so basically separating them would mean I cut the wires coming through the woofer, weld them back together so that the woofer is in an individual circuit with the low frequency poles.
And same idea for the tweeters, since its a "3 piece" tweeter, I guess they already have their crossover setup integrated so what would it change if I just put ALL 4 wires on the Kenwood speakers (2 x + and 2 x -) wouldn't all the sounds come through and the kenwood's setup would separate the sounds on its own as it would on a regular setup?
The Toyota amp has two sets of wires. One for highs a + and a -. And one for the lows a + and a -. So coming from the amp you have four wires per side. Your trying to split the speaker into a high input +- and the other input for lows(woofer) seperate +-. I'm pretty sure the wires for the tweeters do not come through the woofer cone like factory speakers. It easer and cheaper to build them like that. The kenwoods have a set of wires that run right through the middle of the speaker. They come off the single terminal inputs on the speaker and go down the side of the magnet and under the sticker on the back of the magnet and through a pole that holds the tweeters in place. Cut the tweeter wires from the input terminal. Splice them and hook them up. Keep the woofer inputs in the same place. Don't touch them. That should be all you have to do.
Wow thanks man, its a lot of fun to get to hear from guys like you who see clearly in situations where a little DIY comes into play... it seems as though in daily life we're surrounded with two types of people : Those who don't dare to adapt or modify anything, and those who'll take advantage of your situation to sell you something magic that will solve all your problems...
Thanks again man! I'll be doing that for sure, and keeping the terminals make a lot of sense might actually look like a clean job. The only thing that seems to be of worry is that the "shape" of this aftermarket 6x9 might not align with the factory holes, in which case I'll try to set something up to keep good air tight for the infinite baffle in the trunk.
If this mod didn't work I was going to say I'll just mount the 6x9's anyway into the high input, and get two small 8 inch subs wired to the low inputs in the trunk.. might also be a good plan?
Thanks again man! I'll be doing that for sure, and keeping the terminals make a lot of sense might actually look like a clean job. The only thing that seems to be of worry is that the "shape" of this aftermarket 6x9 might not align with the factory holes, in which case I'll try to set something up to keep good air tight for the infinite baffle in the trunk.
If this mod didn't work I was going to say I'll just mount the 6x9's anyway into the high input, and get two small 8 inch subs wired to the low inputs in the trunk.. might also be a good plan?
By the way, the stock impedance says that the woofer is 4ohm and the tweeter is 2ohm, by separating the kenwood if ever my impedance goes up a bit (If the total impedance of the wired speaker is 4ohm if I separate them can I assume i'Ll be having two 8ohms since they're probably in parallel?) what "problem" can I run into?
Keeping in mind that I rarely go into the high volumes which would eliminate premature failure of the amp in my opinion.
Right now the current setup if you FADE 100% REAR, and compare with front it feels as though the rear speakers play 20% lower than the front kit.
Keeping in mind that I rarely go into the high volumes which would eliminate premature failure of the amp in my opinion.
Right now the current setup if you FADE 100% REAR, and compare with front it feels as though the rear speakers play 20% lower than the front kit.
The tweeter and woofer may both be 4 ohms. The rising impedance of the woofer and the crossover on the tweeter mean that neither speaker will load the amplifier across the entire spectrum.
It's also possible that the tweeter is a piezo tweeter and the load that it presents to the amplifier will be even less except at very high frequencies.
It's also possible that the tweeter is a piezo tweeter and the load that it presents to the amplifier will be even less except at very high frequencies.
Alright so I cut the wire to the "3 tweeter" setup on the 6x9
Result : 4 ohm on the woofer (after removal of the tweeter)
Tweeter : I get no reading on the impedance...
Didn't COMPLETELY understand Perry Babin's post but it seems to fall into the lines of my situation.
So the woofer remains 4 ohm
What happens with the tweeter? I Think the initial setup on my lexus is 2 ohm on the tweeter what changes can I expect?
Result : 4 ohm on the woofer (after removal of the tweeter)
Tweeter : I get no reading on the impedance...
Didn't COMPLETELY understand Perry Babin's post but it seems to fall into the lines of my situation.
So the woofer remains 4 ohm
What happens with the tweeter? I Think the initial setup on my lexus is 2 ohm on the tweeter what changes can I expect?
Well first of all its not a SINGLE tweeter, there are 3 its an assembly (4 way, woofer and 3 tweets)
They created the assembly with ONE wire feeding all 3, on the box for the speakers they say
One mid
One tweeter
one Super tweeter (whatever..)
The mid does have a magnet and I can see capacitors underneath, yes.
The two tweeters dont seem to have a visible magnet from the view angle I can achieve.
They created the assembly with ONE wire feeding all 3, on the box for the speakers they say
One mid
One tweeter
one Super tweeter (whatever..)
The mid does have a magnet and I can see capacitors underneath, yes.
The two tweeters dont seem to have a visible magnet from the view angle I can achieve.
If there is a capacitor in series with any of the speakers/tweeters, that will prevent a multimeter from reading any resistance. It will read as open (OL on most meters).
The two tweeters are likely piezo drivers. Some amplifiers will oscillate with piezo tweeters. To protect the amp, a resistors is typically inserted in series with the piezo tweeters. Having the midrange driver in parallel with the tweeters will probably protect the amplifier from the piezo drivers so the resistor may not be necessary.
If the original tweeter was 2 ohms, the higher impedance drivers will receive less power from the amplifier. This could result in lower overall output unless the new speakers are more efficient.
The two tweeters are likely piezo drivers. Some amplifiers will oscillate with piezo tweeters. To protect the amp, a resistors is typically inserted in series with the piezo tweeters. Having the midrange driver in parallel with the tweeters will probably protect the amplifier from the piezo drivers so the resistor may not be necessary.
If the original tweeter was 2 ohms, the higher impedance drivers will receive less power from the amplifier. This could result in lower overall output unless the new speakers are more efficient.
Well see if the woofer is still giving equivalent bass, the actual problem with the stock tweeters was their efficiency the treble wasn't crisp, I guess I can deal with a lower output for better quality.
If I plug another set of tweeters in parallel with them would I increase my output?
Keeping in mind I'm not looking to drive this like crazy, the oscillation you speak of on the piezo's is rumored to occur when driven hard.
I want a nice clear sound, nothing too special in the high volumes.
If I plug another set of tweeters in parallel with them would I increase my output?
Keeping in mind I'm not looking to drive this like crazy, the oscillation you speak of on the piezo's is rumored to occur when driven hard.
I want a nice clear sound, nothing too special in the high volumes.
The oscillation can occur with no output. It's due to the capacitance of the tweeter. Some amps aren't stable driving something that's very nearly pure capacitance.
If you want good, clean highs, buy a good set of tweeters. The ones on standard car speakers typically aren't very good. The last set of 6x9s that I purchased (for the workbench) were so bad that I cut the wires loose and purchased a pair of home tweeters for the highs. These are the ones I purchased but virtually any good quality tweeter is likely to be better than the ones that were included with the speakers.
Tweeter
Crossover
If you want good, clean highs, buy a good set of tweeters. The ones on standard car speakers typically aren't very good. The last set of 6x9s that I purchased (for the workbench) were so bad that I cut the wires loose and purchased a pair of home tweeters for the highs. These are the ones I purchased but virtually any good quality tweeter is likely to be better than the ones that were included with the speakers.
Tweeter
Crossover
Put in the setup connected the kenwood woofer to the woofer line, connected the "Tweeters" to the high line.
Result : Highs suck, Lows were better on stock speakers
I initially wanted clearer voices, didn't mind losing bass figured I'd pop a sub in worse comes to worse
So I took apart the 6x9's removed the tweeter assembly, ended up removing the crossover capacitor on the MID allowing it to play all the frequencies on the 'high wire' from the stock amp, much better highs very clear.
The only puzzle for me is, those 2 other tweeters that seem to be 'piezo' as they have no resistance and no magnet, they hardly make a sound at all, they seem to be much of a decoration
The other puzzle : The stock 6x9 woofers were 2 ohm, the replacement kenwoods are 4.
On the stock I could put 'BASS' at 5 on my headunit without a growl, now at 5 at medium to high volumes sounds like the woofer on the kenwoods is like BOING BOING BOING.... boombox effect I wonder if there's any connection to 2 or 4 ohm changes I mean how can a stock cardboard cone beat a 280W kenwood higher end.
Thanks for the help if you guys have any advice go for it!
Weird how the setup was as follows : The piezo tweeters no crossovers they don't filter anything, but the mid speaker had a capacitor do piezo tweeters automatically filter bass?
Thanks.
Result : Highs suck, Lows were better on stock speakers
I initially wanted clearer voices, didn't mind losing bass figured I'd pop a sub in worse comes to worse
So I took apart the 6x9's removed the tweeter assembly, ended up removing the crossover capacitor on the MID allowing it to play all the frequencies on the 'high wire' from the stock amp, much better highs very clear.
The only puzzle for me is, those 2 other tweeters that seem to be 'piezo' as they have no resistance and no magnet, they hardly make a sound at all, they seem to be much of a decoration
The other puzzle : The stock 6x9 woofers were 2 ohm, the replacement kenwoods are 4.
On the stock I could put 'BASS' at 5 on my headunit without a growl, now at 5 at medium to high volumes sounds like the woofer on the kenwoods is like BOING BOING BOING.... boombox effect I wonder if there's any connection to 2 or 4 ohm changes I mean how can a stock cardboard cone beat a 280W kenwood higher end.
Thanks for the help if you guys have any advice go for it!
Weird how the setup was as follows : The piezo tweeters no crossovers they don't filter anything, but the mid speaker had a capacitor do piezo tweeters automatically filter bass?
Thanks.
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