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reference picasso class A issues
reference picasso class A issues
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Old 9th January 2012, 09:47 AM   #31
azvrt is offline azvrt  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Netherlands
I feel bad for Russdeanlee. I know how frustrating it can be when you are looking for a certain type of sound. The problem he is having with the Picasso I have experienced twice.
At some point I sold a Class A 3.0 and 6.0 to someone who absolutely loved them. He later also bought a Reference Picasso from me which is definitely a cleaner amplifier than the previous two. While he agreed on that he missed a certain warmth to the sound.

The sound of the Ref Picasso technically is closer to perfection than the 3.0 and 6.0, but technically perfect sound sometimes just doesn't do it for a person.
And I experienced the same thing. While the Reference Picasso is very, very clean, it just didn't do it for me on my mids due to the fact its sound is not warm enough for me (I like the sound on my mids very, very warm).

I therefore chose to put my Genesis Series 2 Class A's (which resemble the 3.0 / 6.0 more than they do the Picasso) on my mids as the combination with my Altec car speakers really does it (for me). The Picasso is absolutely perfect for the tweeters.

At some point Russdeanlee mentioned to me he missed warmth in the sound of the Picasso so maybe the story above is also the case for him.

Same things with my Renoirs (basically the same as a Ref Picasso). They are absolutely near-perfect and outperform my Genesis Series 2 high-bias amps, but nonetheless I prefer the Genesis on my mids. The near-perfection of the Renoirs doesn't do it for me there, so I use them bridged on bass speakers that operate in the 60 to 100 Hz frequency range, and like the Picasso they absolutely shine on tweeters.

I wish you all the best in your search for the sound that is pleasing to you and you only.
In the end, no two pairs of ears are the same and we all have our own brain and emotion.

By the way you might need to look at your speakers and head-unit as well. If I remember correctly you are using Dynaudio speakers. While I love the tweeters (especially on the Picasso), the woofers never did it for me, on any amplifier. In the end I put very old Altec Lansing M400 4 inch speakers in between the tweeters and the woofers and turned them into a three way, the Dynaudio woofers serving only as bass speakers from 60 Hz to 100 Hz.
The sound definitely improved.

Head-units will also produce different sound. A friend of mine and myself are both using an Eclipse CD8445E head-unit and CD-3083 CD Changer. The HU has a 24-bit DAC while the CD-Player has a 1-bit DAC. Since I installed the changer I NEVER use the head unit's internal CD player anymore as I absolutely prefer the sound the changer produces. My friend on the other hand prefers the head unit's internal player, on most recordings.

So for you to find YOUR perfect sound, many factors come into play. Use the right amp on the right speakers (highs/mids/bass/subs) and get some good recordings, so many crap recordings out there, which a revealing amplifier like a Picasso paired with Dynaudio speakers will only bring fully to your attention.
Since I have been improving the sound in my car, less and less recordings are pleasing to me. The good ones now sound fantastic and much better than before, but slightly less good ones sound pretty horrible...

Good luck ! And if you need to take a break so you can clear your mind and rest your emotions in order to have a fresh start, do it.

Last edited by azvrt; 9th January 2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 03:12 AM   #32
JZatopa is offline JZatopa  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago
OK so I have a picasso amp as well and tonight I went to check to bias V on each channel. They were all about .040V or 40mV. This is pretty much double what it should be set at from what I have been told and what I see on this posts. The thing is that this amp does not warm up, I am using it on a pair of DE500 + minibodies. There is nothing wrong with the sound either. So should I be worried about this? I put the amp back together and left it alone.

I know that this amp isn't an F5 but my F5 is biased at .60V. Why does the Piccasso need to be at .020V? Is thermal runaway the only problem? If so couldn't we just add some thermal compensation or shutoff
Knowledge is Power & Applied Knowledge is Freedom,
There is no higher religion than truth
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Old 22nd February 2012, 10:17 AM   #33
azvrt is offline azvrt  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Netherlands
Hi my friend, I see you took my advise and moved your questions from Diyma over to this website.

However, people prefer you start a new thread when it concerns another unit, even if it is the same model. By the way, I believe your amp is a Rubi Picasso, this thread concerns a Ref Picasso.

Anyway, I started a new thread for you here, hope you don't mind:

Rubicon Picasso questions

And mentioned what we have discussed and done so far.
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