Phoenix Gold XS2300 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Car Audio

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th July 2011, 04:29 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Default Phoenix Gold XS2300

The amp had one channel blown(output transistors Q114,115) and Q113(A06) which I believe drives the gate. I have replaced what I know was bad, but I this channel will startup fine then drop out, startup then dropout. I would believe it has something to do with a protection circuit.

Any thoughts?

Cory
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2011, 09:23 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Louisiana
Are the emitter resistors within tolerance?

Are their solder connections oxidized?

Does it drop out regardless of the signal/output level?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2011, 10:58 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
I replaced the emitter resistors because two were out of tolerance and actually the solder had reflowed on them.
I'm using a CD changer for my source and adjust the input level on the amp. I could use my headphone jack on my phone and try that for different input levels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 12:28 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern California
Humm... Hi guys,
This amp has very little protection circuitry on it. It does have one 2.2k @25C thermal sensor that can shut down the amp for heat issues. Other then that it has no DC offset sensing and shutdown. One LM339 device is used for thermal.
It uses one of the other LM339 devices for the bias reference. It has a 5.1 volt reference supply on the power supply side that feeds the bias circuitry. Please remember from other posts these XS and Tantrums amps are cousins of each other and both share a common design issue of this unique bias voltage supply from the 12 volt side.
The other two LM339 devices are used for over-voltage at 16.0 Volt threshold, and low turn on threshold of 9.0 and 9.5 volt. All on the 12 volt side of the supply.

Ummm. have you checked for any DC output from each channels speaker terminals with no RCAs and no speakers connected. I like to see less the 0.010 MVDC or 10 milli-volts DC or LESS on each channels speaker terminals, if not in this range you most likely have issues within the channel somewhere.

Also what size power supply are you using to test it with or is it connected to a car battery for this test ? Factory says 30 amp fuse so it looks like this little amp can draw some juice when it wants to.

Misc. other numbers are a +33.5 volt supply to the input diff pair and bias circuitry only. And a +&- 27.5 volt set of rails to the rest of the main amp stages. And of course a lower bipolar supply of +&- 15 VDC

XS and Tantrum series amps all share some design commonalities. The bias supply for the amp is one and the other is when they blow output and drivers they can and do feedback damage further back in the channel. Luckily the parts to rebuild a entire channel rarely run more the 5 or 6 bucks, and a little extra time and effort...Hope this helps some....
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 03:52 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1moreamp View Post
Ummm. have you checked for any DC output from each channels speaker terminals with no RCAs and no speakers connected. I like to see less the 0.010 MVDC or 10 milli-volts DC or LESS on each channels speaker terminals, if not in this range you most likely have issues within the channel somewhere.

The good channel has 18mV and the bad is all over the place when it stops working, otherwise it would read about 30mV

Also what size power supply are you using to test it with or is it connected to a car battery for this test ? Factory says 30 amp fuse so it looks like this little amp can draw some juice when it wants to.

My supply is 25amp capicitive coupled DC supply, not the issue. One channel works fine while the other starts out fine then drops out.
Misc. other numbers are a +33.5 volt supply to the input diff pair and bias circuitry only. And a +&- 27.5 volt set of rails to the rest of the main amp stages. And of course a lower bipolar supply of +&- 15 VDC

The rails read +-~27Vdc and the +-15 read -16Vdc, 20Vdc

)
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 07:34 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern California
Ok the 20 volts is no good so i would say check R127 it should be 240 ohm 1 watt, and the zener D29 its a 15 volt 1N4744A. These are the most likely trouble spots for the 15 rail. I would try to get this first then go back the unstable channel. 20 Volts to any of the Op-amps could have been deadly to them. I would check voltages on all of the NE5532P and even the LM13600 remote bass gain control chip. Pin 6 is -15 and pin 11 is +15 on the LM13600.

18 MVDC is liveable but well used IMHO, The other channel with it all over the place and then settling at 30MVDC is the source of trouble as the amp channel is most likely oscillating which gives you the all over the place ready, and the 30MVDC is a sure sign of weakened components before those you replace already.

As I said in the earlier post I like to see these amps below 10 MVDC for like new operation. Check the 200 ohm 2 watt resistor, and the 4.7 ohm 1 watt resistor. These like to open up on blown channels. Also read test points 15 & 16 and then 17 & 18 these should give you the bias voltage readings in Milli-volts. Replacing outputs usually requires realignment of bias. Please read across the test points with your meter one probe to TP15 and the other probe to TP16, and the same for TP 17 & 18.

As I said before this amp has no shutdown from DC output or the like so the channel that is muting is because something in that channel is breaking down and shorting in the channel as their is no mute circuitry like you would normally see in other amps. Any turn on muting must be controlled by the bias circuitry and its reference signal to each channel. There are no J-fets and No mute drive indicated anywhere, so this leaves the bias circuitry from the 12 volt side to control any muting on turn on and off.

I have seen the 1/8 watt resistors in defective channel change value BOM says 1/8 watt 1% metal film unless visibly otherwise. Those and the 4 zener diodes 2 are 15 volt 1N5245B and 2 are 6.0 volt 1N5233B these like to go south also on channel failure.
If none of this checks out then most likely several of the MPSA06 and MPSA56 devices are leaking. Input pair is 2SC2389 times 2 and I have seen them cause excessive DC offset as they get beat up by the activity that killed the amp in the first place.

Sorry so much info but your on top of your game with this so long list should not deter you too much IMO....
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 01:44 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
This amp was beat and beat some more, poor thing. It was bridged for sub use and probably driven into a clipped state for years. Not my amp so I don't know the complete history!

I was mistaken with the 20Vdc level, +-15V supplies read fine(15.3Vdc, -16.2Vdc).

Where are these TP's? I see nothing marked on the board indicating test points. ie TP15

1moreamp you seemed to be well versed in the phoenix gold, since most of the CD's are screened under the part, do you have a schematic that is close to this amp? I doubt PG will send me one, they are not RF when it comes to giving out the schematics.

I haven't checked the zeners yet, next on the list. I will most likely replace all transistors in this section to be safe at some point.


Thanks,
Cory
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 02:04 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Any idea what resistor value should be placed just in front of Q115 marking. It was burnt and from what I could tell on the other channel it was 120 ohms. Not having much for leaded parts I dropped a couple 60 ohms SM parts in the place.

Here is a pic
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PG1.JPG (295.7 KB, 78 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 02:56 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
I think that's R132 which is 324 ohm 1/8w 1% metal film resistor. I don't have a board layout for this amp and I'm just going on what I can see.

You guys need to move out of the US as PG in the UK are a little more willing to supply schematics.

Nick
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2011, 05:09 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern California
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandes.cm View Post
Any idea what resistor value should be placed just in front of Q115 marking. It was burnt and from what I could tell on the other channel it was 120 ohms. Not having much for leaded parts I dropped a couple 60 ohms SM parts in the place.

Here is a pic

Oh please check the red coil to see if it is broken one of its leads to the board I have seen this on several occasions and it will cause the floating /oscillating issues you mentioned earlier. If broken re-attach and then apply liberal amounts of RTV to keep it from breaking again.
As for schematics I most likely have any PG amp posted here already here on my bench or with in reach. In this case of 2300's and 2500's I turn these quickly and return them to owners because for 4 to 6 bucks the channel can be completely rebuilt like new. So those get this routine and go back quickly to owners.

In your picture it would appear that someone tried to use a couple SMD resistors to make one of the 1/8 watt thru hole resistors that most likely fried. NickParr is correct about it being a 324 ohm resistor IF it is connected across the Gate to Source leads of the fet. It also is 1% tolerance metal film. As posted before all resistors in the channel will most likely need to be checked for integrity, and 1% is the max out of spec you should find anywhere except for the larger 5% resistors.

With your description of the amps abuse level IMHO may I suggest that you consider GUTTING the amp channel to insure a fast and complete repair. I have had to do this myself on many many occasions. It costs no more the $10.00 US to replace everything silicon and be done with it. Trying to find each little out of spec device could take you hours , while clearing the slate and making it all new will take way less time. Time being money in the repair business I hope all of you see why I do this.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
phoenix gold xs4600 poopydoopynoopy Car Audio 8 17th February 2011 03:38 PM
Phoenix Gold 2125...Help lele73golf Car Audio 0 23rd September 2010 06:09 PM
Addicted to Phoenix Gold gridracer Car Audio 2 30th August 2010 08:58 PM
need help with phoenix gold xs2300 fbc Car Audio 5 10th February 2010 05:36 PM
Phoenix gold xs2300 - advice needed for repairing fbc Solid State 3 6th February 2010 11:27 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2