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Old 7th April 2011, 04:49 PM   #1
NauTech is offline NauTech  Canada
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Default phoenix gold ZX450 problem

Hi
Ive got this oldschool phoenix gold ZX450
when i plug it the OVL red light turns on for about 1 second then it turns off and the green power light lights up
but no audio is playing ...
I dont remember if it used to do this when powered up or if there was only the green light who lighted up.. so i dont know if its normal
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Old 7th April 2011, 07:27 PM   #2
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Your light up sequence sounds fine. No signal out could be lots of things. I have seen the power supplies fail and blow all their internal fuse resistor protection and still give the proper light up sequence, but not supply any power inside.
Or it could be something simple like bad selector switches on the crossover board, or blown input ground resistors located behind the RCA's, or bad pots.

When the amp turns on, do you get all 8 of the red LEDs inside to light up ??? There should be 2 LEDs per channel X 4 channels = 8 red LEDs looking thru the left view port. If those are out you might have a bad power supply section. If they are on then its probably a front end crossover board problem....
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:17 PM   #3
NauTech is offline NauTech  Canada
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there is only the 3 top leds red green yellow...
nothing else lights up and i cant find any other leds on the board... do you have a pic of the location cause ive been looking for 15minutes and no signs of any other leds...
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Old 8th April 2011, 01:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NauTech View Post
there is only the 3 top leds red green yellow...
nothing else lights up and i cant find any other leds on the board... do you have a pic of the location cause ive been looking for 15minutes and no signs of any other leds...

I am sorry your version does not have the LEDs. I apologize as some Zx and all Ti amps had the LEDs, along with MS, MPS, MQ series amps. What version is you ZX ? they had two versions of many models.
A simple check of DC offset on the outputs will tell you if you have rail voltage or not. To measure this just turn the amp on like normal and place a DC voltmeter across each channels terminals. You should get something like 5 to 10 Milli-volts or 0.005 to 0.010 DC volts. This number can be higher depending on age and condition of the semiconductors in each channel, but will only be present if the power supply is functional.

If you get these small voltage reading I would tend to think your problems are back with the input board. RCA ground resistors, gain pots, selector switches for input and crossover configuration are typical issues on these.

Let me know what you find, and again I am sorry about the LED confusion
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Old 8th April 2011, 01:17 AM   #5
NauTech is offline NauTech  Canada
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no problem mate
I dont know wich version i have how can i know ? the only thing written on it is the model and the amp is black

I will measure the outputs tomorrow and let you know (the amp is at my job)

since i dont have the diagrams i simply measured here and there on the FETs on leg 1 to see if i had 5v on the gates and i had 0V ... not 5v .. i measured a few of them since i didnt knew wich one were doing what exactly and they were all 0V
would you happen to have a diagram for that amp?
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Old 8th April 2011, 02:52 AM   #6
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Black matte case should be version 2 , STP55N06 are your mosfets and they have 33 ohm fusible resistors on each fets gate lead. These can and do blow out if the supply fets die. What is your ground reference point testing these ?

0 volts on the gate leads might mean the amp has been inhibited from turning on by some fault yet unseen. The power supply is controlled by Thermal, and overload inputs along with DC rail failure detections. Any of these can turn the amp off.
Please test the DC output/offset and or read the DC on any of the main amp transistors ground referenced to toroid center tap and record any large DC voltages you get.
PG used a staggered dual supply where the Darlington output stages run at about ~+&- 42 volt DC, and the input stages run at~ +&-49 volts DC. So these are the big numbers you will see if the supply is functional.

It would not matter if I had the print for this amp, since I lack any permission to freely distribute any such information. Simply stated, I own what's in my mind from the last 20 years or so, but even some of that is questionable, and I don't want any issues from any intellectual property which I do not own. I hope you understand, and I will try my best to help you without upsetting the powers to be...
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Old 8th April 2011, 03:00 AM   #7
NauTech is offline NauTech  Canada
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the amp ground terminal is my reference
if it would be thermal or overload the leds would be lit ?

yeah i understand but its a pita for me to test some parts if i dont have a diagram and dont know where exactly the parts are located and where they lead...

I can try my best to get some readings but i would not even be shure i would measure the right spot..

when you say measure the DC output/offset do you mean both DCC probes at the speakers terminal ?
where are located the main amps transistors ? ( i will use the ground from the center tap of the toroid for those ones)

Last edited by NauTech; 8th April 2011 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 8th April 2011, 05:59 AM   #8
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There are component numbers and test points clearly marked on all the boards, and I have used them mostly for final alignment and some early on detection. If you have any questions regarding these test points just ask, and I will dig up my carcases and tech notes for you...

As I have said many times before, PG never publicly released any documents in their entire history. If they had I would have those public documents, and I would share them IF they had ever been public in the first place. I like repairing amps and helping other to do the same that is why I am here trying to be helpful. But getting into trouble over helping others is not part of my agenda....
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Old 8th April 2011, 12:59 PM   #9
NauTech is offline NauTech  Canada
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fair enough
its a good start
ill measure those and let you know probably tonight around 5 after the job
thanks 1moreamp ? lol
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Old 9th April 2011, 12:13 AM   #10
NauTech is offline NauTech  Canada
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the exact model is ZX450B 00016 on the casing

on the speaker outputs i have voltage on all of them
i used the middle toroid connection on the left of the toroid cause there is nothing in the middle... 5 wire on the left 4 on the right and the middle on the left seems to be a ground... so i used that one...
i have
15mV left front speaker
25mV left rear speaker
8mV right front speaker
12mV right rear speaker
and there seems to be an error on the case for the polarity cause it ways +-+- and when i measure the positive for the right terminals are on the far right... like this +--+... dont know if its me .. anyways i have voltage on all of the 4 outer pins

for the transistors i will describing them with the power terminals to the right closest to me
the ones who are upright in free air...
there is the front row (closest to me) they all have 40V 3.25V 40V
the rear row (fartest to me) they all have 1.8V 41V 1.2V

I notice halfway that some reads negative and some reads positive voltages... i didnt take note at first so i will simply write the voltages ... hope this is not that important
after that the transistors under the heatsinks and fans..
the 8 big transistors are on my left...
they are a batch of normal transistors with TO-220FP casing aroung the bigger ones
they all read 1.7V 1.7V 1.0V and there are others wich are smaller and almost square with foam pads underneath them.. they all read 1.2V 35V 0.6V

then on the right there is a bunch of TO-220 transistors and 2 TO-220FP...
the 2 TO-220FP's legs looks weird... they are satinated not mettalic (like al the TO-220 on the right..) thats ok but they look kind of semi dark black (like when there is a short but no signs of shorts) anyways.. for those 2.. one reads 30V 0V 15V (the one the fartest of me) and the one closest to me reads 0V -25V -15V

then my partner noticed 2 of the big transistors Q118 and Q119 getting hot and what seems to be the transfo starting to wine a little we unplugged the amp and let it cool... now when we power the remote this sound is always present as soon as the amp gets the green light (after the 2second red OVL light) and the 2 big MJL3281A gets hot real quick... so we measured those 2 real fast and i reads
1-2 0 ohm
1-3 0.3ohm
2-3 0ohm
and the other
1-2 20k and lowering (capacitor)
1-3 120ohm
2-3 9.4Mohm
did we ****** something up removing the heatsinks and powered it for like not even a minute.. nothing seemed hot at first then all of a sudden thoese 2 gets hot and the transfo is winning a bit...
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