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Old 10th January 2011, 11:36 PM   #1
pergo is offline pergo  Italy
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Default DLM4000 class D driver board

Hi Everyone!

i open this post for discuss the DLM4000 class D driver board circuit.
Click the image to open in full size.

First of all, i don't wanna know the name of occulted integrated circuit.

It's important to know that the 24pin chip, is a proprietary D-Logic circuit, that cannot be sold at DIYers or repairmen.
So, when this driver board has the 24pin-chip defective, you have to forget the repair (until you find a good driver board for another amp).


Anyone know what signals goes throu each pin?

for example:
pin1: +Vrail
pin2: analog signal
pin3: feedback
...
...

etc etc.



If it's possibile, post the waveforms for each pin it's welcome!

The objective is understand the circuit's behaviour, and build a DIY version with commercial parts such IR's gate driver with some comparators, smd passives, etc. (as the DWMs driver board, that have commercial IR's parts)

I know it's very very hard, but i think it will be a great help for several DIYers...and, maybe, someone has the instruments to build it own version of this driver board (maybe bigger, but ok).

This driver board is mounted in several class D car amps, like Powerbass 3000/4000, Ground Zero 8000, and much more
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Old 10th January 2011, 11:44 PM   #2
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You would be better looking at the IRS2092 which is pretty much a class d solution on one chip. It is a little finicky to work with but so long as you decouple well it usually works. I designed a 2092 circuit using the datasheet as a basis and it owrked with a bit of effort.

I have also designed a none single chip solutions using the irs2113.
This again was a bit fussy about decoupling but it worked fine.

I ditched the 2113 design in favour of the IRS2092 which needed fewer components.
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Old 10th January 2011, 11:54 PM   #3
pergo is offline pergo  Italy
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thanks for your fast reply


the IR2123S is part of original DLM4000 board.

No matters what part i will use in the DIY-version, if it willl work

IRS2092 has the "touch" problem? (if you touch it, it won't start)

anyway, IRS2092 or similar may be a good starting point, but the problem remains: 24pin d-logic chip, what does?
Modulator?
Buffer?
Fashion???


IRS2092 have to be buffered. Some amps have lots output mosfets...as 20 IRFP360LC and it works only up to +-100V. +-100V is too low for 3+kW

Last edited by pergo; 11th January 2011 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 11th January 2011, 01:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pergo View Post
thanks for your fast reply

24pin d-logic chip, what does?
Modulator?
Buffer?
Fashion???
A class d amp usually has a triangular wave generator then the audio in and the triangular wave go into a comparator. The output of the comparator goes into 2 xor gates to phase split the signal for a hi/lo sided switch.
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Old 11th January 2011, 11:00 AM   #5
pergo is offline pergo  Italy
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The DLM4000 board has 3 main chip:
- DLI4060B (24pin, d-logic secret function)
- common CMOS NOR-gate (as CD4001)
- gate driver IR211x (as IR2113s)
Click the image to open in full size.


thanks to my "secret source"(), i discover that there's a similar driver board called DLM4500
Click the image to open in full size.

this board has less parts, but the main is still DLI4060 (version A, with 20pin and not 24).
No other integrated circuits

I think that DLI4060A (20pin) and DLI4060B (24pin), are similar.

20pin version has:

- audio signal 1Vpp
- feedback
- strage triangle waveform (seems capacitor charge-discharge)
- 2 square waves: one perfect 10Vpp, one 8Vpp with upper side "rounded"
- gnd
- +10Vdc supply
- -10Vdc supply
- perfect triangle waveform
- 1 little squarewave 2,5Vpp
- 2 dirty sinewaves: one distorted (seems "bent") 5Vpp, other 2,5Vpp + 2Vdc offset.
- shutdown (i see a lot ground signal, maybe one is shutdown)

All waves, sine, triangle or square, are at the same frequency. (100kHz for example)

DLM4500 outputs are classical hi-lo side squarewave as IR's parts One referred to -Vrail, one to +Vrail.

As you can see in the photo, beetween 20-pin chip and outpunt pins, there are only 2 transistor, some smd passives, and 2 4-pin integrated circuit (opto??).


In conclusion, DLI4060A is a comparator+integrator+clock (maybe the 2,5Vpp signal).


Possible?

Last edited by pergo; 11th January 2011 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 4th April 2011, 06:39 AM   #6
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I am actively trying to reverse engineer this sub board because it needs legacy support. Here is my contribution. There were two revisions of the 'sub' PCB on the DLM-4500 shown here. And of course my depotting work. A few of the pins are interconnected, most likely the power. The differences if you notice is the later revision has a chipset of which one has 2 more pins. Your pin count is off BTW. Count them again.

I would love to demystify this and create a legacy support board. Dlogixs wants 5 thousand dollars to do a single run. They are long out of production for this particular PCB and sub-pcb.


Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.




- Matt

Last edited by MatthewS; 4th April 2011 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 4th April 2011, 07:30 AM   #7
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The revisions lined up, and Waveforms compliments of Perry Babin.

The DLM4000 You posted first is the latest revision 'B' 4060 of the Dlogix solution. Shown up top here is the earliest, and downward it evolves. So little was changed through out the revisions that you could swap any SUB-PCB between the 3 and it would work. The DLM4500 used the first Dlogix '1kw1ch' solution with the driver board built around it. It started as two parts under an epoxy glob, then went to two parts non-globbed with two additional pins, onto the DLI4060 'A' you see last which is now apparently being used on the latest driver board. Interesting how it evolved, but nothing tangible around it changed. At least not on this particular driver board.


Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.


- Matt

Last edited by MatthewS; 4th April 2011 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 4th April 2011, 08:57 AM   #8
pergo is offline pergo  Italy
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Hi Matt,

thank you for your contibution. It's very appreciated

A question.
DL101 and DL102 have "commercial" subs? Like IR's chips
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Old 4th April 2011, 06:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pergo View Post
DL101 and DL102 have "commercial" subs? Like IR's chips
If I knew that; We wouldn't be here.

I am going to try and draw a schematic AROUND the two piece boards. It will be a side project, and probably ugly. Hope your ready to help clean it up and look.

I see a 14 pin chip (CMOS logic? Or hi/lo driver?) and an 8 pin (guess...)

- Matt
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Old 4th April 2011, 06:34 PM   #10
pergo is offline pergo  Italy
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this can help?

I made it with Paint

Click the image to open in full size.


And substitute the entire board with a new one with IRS chip + discrete to220 totem pole driver? Or CMOS + IRS21844?
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