I'm unfortunate enough to not have a hatchback, which is great except for sub placement.
I know its very common to put a sub in the trunk of a sedan, but to me that seems like one of the worst possible places to put a speaker. The sound has to go through the back seat and possibly a few passengers. That and perhaps the empty stock speaker holes.
I guess the wavelength is much longer than the seats, but even considering that, does that placement muffle the subs SQ at all? I'd appreciate any explanation of this.
I was planning on buying some 6.5'' tang band subwoofer-like drivers and putting them infinite baffle in place of the 6x9's. So my question is, would a 10'' sealed sub in the trunk get all sorts of nasty standing waves? Is it ideal to leave the stock speaker holes open, or seal them up?
I know its very common to put a sub in the trunk of a sedan, but to me that seems like one of the worst possible places to put a speaker. The sound has to go through the back seat and possibly a few passengers. That and perhaps the empty stock speaker holes.
I guess the wavelength is much longer than the seats, but even considering that, does that placement muffle the subs SQ at all? I'd appreciate any explanation of this.
I was planning on buying some 6.5'' tang band subwoofer-like drivers and putting them infinite baffle in place of the 6x9's. So my question is, would a 10'' sealed sub in the trunk get all sorts of nasty standing waves? Is it ideal to leave the stock speaker holes open, or seal them up?
Hm, well I don't have any suitable drivers yet. Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping for a technical explanation so I can choose the more ideal option 
.
The cost will be about the same, I might save a little on a single larger driver, but unless anyone can convince me the trunk won't do terrible things I'm going to go for the two IB 6.5's.
.The cost will be about the same, I might save a little on a single larger driver, but unless anyone can convince me the trunk won't do terrible things I'm going to go for the two IB 6.5's.
Hm, well I don't have any suitable drivers yet. Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping for a technical explanation so I can choose the more ideal option
The cost will be about the same, I might save a little on a single larger driver, but unless anyone can convince me the trunk won't do terrible things I'm going to go for the two IB 6.5's.
Well, sure the trunk is going to create "terrible" things, but will you notice them? Hell, cars in general create "terrible" things, especially windows, when it comes to reflections, acoustics, phase, etc......
Let's get real here, 6.5'' "subwoofer-like" drivers simply can't pump out as much bass as a real subwoofer. They might not put out as much bass as your 6x9s! That's not to say they'll sound bad if you like jazz at moderate volumes, but you simply need something much bigger if you want to pound.
What's the vehicle? (Make, model, year). A picture of the trunk would help.
Can you shove some 10s into that position?
How sturdy is the rear seat? I once vented subs through a classic Olds Cutlass' back seat, which was just thin foam and springs. But often today the seat is very thick foam, the trunk seatback is covered with sheet metal, and won't transmit sound well at all...
What's the vehicle? (Make, model, year). A picture of the trunk would help.
Can you shove some 10s into that position?
How sturdy is the rear seat? I once vented subs through a classic Olds Cutlass' back seat, which was just thin foam and springs. But often today the seat is very thick foam, the trunk seatback is covered with sheet metal, and won't transmit sound well at all...
I know, a car seems like an audio nightmare
. Right now I have some pioneer 5.25" coaxials in the doors with the stock 6x9's in the back and even though the bass is muddy and bloated, the mids have a terrible peak with the windows up, and the rest is just mediocre, I really enjoy the sound (with the windows down ).I know it's terrible, and I'd build something for home if I'd use it, but with 1hr drive almost every day and 0hrs using speakers at home I guess my nightmare will have to continue. :/ So to answer you, I basically don't want boomy one note type bass.
I listen to metal so I was thinking a sealed sub and let the cabin gain counteract the rolloff for a more or less flat response.
This is the driver I was referring to.
It's a 2005 Corolla. I don't know for sure how much foam is in the seats, but they are nice, soft, and thick (very comfortable).
This isn't my trunk, but it's basically the same. The floor of the trunk is some flimsy cardboard shaped plastic looking stuff with carpet over the top. Mine is warped over the spare tire. I was thinking of replacing it with a thick piece of plywood or MDF.
I guess I could try to replace the stock speakers with subs, but the metal cutout would restrict a lot of airflow which couldn't be good. It seems like the only option for that would be cutting out the stock holes, and modifying the car's structure doesn't sound exactly safe.
Maybe I could completely seal off the trunk and use the stock speaker holes to create a bizarre horn loaded enclosure
lol.But seriously, thanks for reading my insanely long posts and helping with this, I appreciate it
.You may not pay attention to my advice since I'm new on these forums but I'll try regardless.
My vehicle is similar to yours. I have a 2007 Toyota yaris sedan. I could link my build photo log but I'll wait until asked to do so.
You're going to be surprised with the response of a subwoofer in your vehicle. Look up the term cabin gain. In my application I'm using a 15" subwoofer mounted I a fiberglass enclosure on the passenger's side of the trunk. The make of the sub is irrelevant at this point. I have actually removed the rear speakers since I don't want music playing behind me. I'm also using a rather exotic three way component set up front...again the manufacturer is not important.
If your situation was mine, I would ask myself what is my source? What amp(s) am I using? What components do I want to use? How far am I getting into this?
All of this has to do with where to place and what sub to use.
In my case, I'm competing in sound quality. Competition with my setup. A lot of time has been invested in speaker placement, sound deadening, actual fabrication, and component choice amongst many other variables.
In your situation, what do you want out of the system? What are you going to be listening to? How much time do you want to invest?
My vehicle is similar to yours. I have a 2007 Toyota yaris sedan. I could link my build photo log but I'll wait until asked to do so.
You're going to be surprised with the response of a subwoofer in your vehicle. Look up the term cabin gain. In my application I'm using a 15" subwoofer mounted I a fiberglass enclosure on the passenger's side of the trunk. The make of the sub is irrelevant at this point. I have actually removed the rear speakers since I don't want music playing behind me. I'm also using a rather exotic three way component set up front...again the manufacturer is not important.
If your situation was mine, I would ask myself what is my source? What amp(s) am I using? What components do I want to use? How far am I getting into this?
All of this has to do with where to place and what sub to use.
In my case, I'm competing in sound quality. Competition with my setup. A lot of time has been invested in speaker placement, sound deadening, actual fabrication, and component choice amongst many other variables.
In your situation, what do you want out of the system? What are you going to be listening to? How much time do you want to invest?
Another addendum to your questions...
Standing waves was a concern of yours. Unless you're slapping a subwoofer into a square box with no dampening or polyfill, you're probably not going to hear bad subwoofer response in regards to standing waves.
I'm telling you that you're basically worrying for no reason. Are you going to be fabbing the system yourself or are you going to have some professional help at some point? I'd really like to see you succeed with the and not flounder and become pissed off, swearing off car audio as crap not worth your time.
People who do that just don't know What they're doing in a car audio environment...sorry to say.
Standing waves was a concern of yours. Unless you're slapping a subwoofer into a square box with no dampening or polyfill, you're probably not going to hear bad subwoofer response in regards to standing waves.
I'm telling you that you're basically worrying for no reason. Are you going to be fabbing the system yourself or are you going to have some professional help at some point? I'd really like to see you succeed with the and not flounder and become pissed off, swearing off car audio as crap not worth your time.
People who do that just don't know What they're doing in a car audio environment...sorry to say.
A link to your build log couldn't hurt, everybody likes pics
.Here's some of the specifics on what I was planning on. I was thinking of getting an active HU, hopefully an alpine 9887 with some 7'' midbass in the doors (I have to measure the hole in the door first, I'm pretty sure it'll fit) and tweeters probably in the stock position, but I'll have to test when I get them. If you want specifics I was looking at some Peerless 830883 and Seas 27TFFNCG. I'll probably get some sound deadening for the doors and possibly the trunk.
I wasn't planning on getting an external amp for the fronts since I wanted to get better quality speakers and add an amp later if necessary. That is probably as far as I'll go to begin with since the HU and fronts are already getting expensive and just installing those will take plenty of time, but I'm planning on adding a sub and amp later depending on how much bass the peerless woofers have. That is why I created this thread, because if I buy and install everything else and there isn't much bass I want to know what sub and amp to buy. Even if the woofers I chose have plenty of bass, I'll want to add a sub later to improve bass extension.
To answer your last questions, it's not competitive or anything, I just love good SQ and since during school I listen to the most music in my car I decided to upgrade that. Ideally I want as flat of a response as possible, I'll probably be buying the well known, cheap behringer mic and a preamp for setting up the crossover and eq. Like I said, I'll mostly be listening to metal. I'm going back to school tomorrow, so I don't have a ton of time, but I'm willing to spend a while getting it done right. I'd rather not tear apart the whole car if I don't have to.
That's what seems like the most ideal setup to me, but again, I don't think a sub will fit unless I cut out the stock speaker holes.
I'll be doing everything myself since I don't want to spend my life savings on my car audio
. I was more worried about the standing waves from sticking a sub in the closed in trunk. Kind of like sticking a home sub in a corner under a desk.One last thing, feel free to suggest any amps, I haven't even looked at amps yet.
http://http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26252
That should be entered properly. I'm doing all of this off my phone. My wife has the laptop...and life sucks without a full size keyboard.
The alpine 7998 is a decent start. You have a satisfactory level of control with the eq an the crossovers.
In scanning your response, I don't think o got the idea of infinite baffle enclosures across very well. As I remember the carolla seats fold down, correct?
When you say thy you want as flat of a response as possible. You're talking about the initial eq'ing of the vehicle correct? Not something you would listen to? I ask because I know what a flat eq sounds like in a vehicle...and it's not good.
Okay, here's where things get difficult to swallow for you. The peerless speakers in the door will only give you so much bass. The location is the other difficult part. The doors. Yeah...
Here's what's going to happen. You're going to get them in the doors after a little deadening and hook them up to power. The bass response will he anemic. You'll decide to throw more power a them...and then your door panels will start, for lack of a better word, farting.
Placing kids in a door panel will require a good bit of deadening an attention. There's MUCH more to add to this part of the discussion. We'll get there when we get there.
Amps...what's your budget?
Don't get discouraged. This is the planning stage for you. Remember your five p's!
That should be entered properly. I'm doing all of this off my phone. My wife has the laptop...and life sucks without a full size keyboard.
The alpine 7998 is a decent start. You have a satisfactory level of control with the eq an the crossovers.
In scanning your response, I don't think o got the idea of infinite baffle enclosures across very well. As I remember the carolla seats fold down, correct?
When you say thy you want as flat of a response as possible. You're talking about the initial eq'ing of the vehicle correct? Not something you would listen to? I ask because I know what a flat eq sounds like in a vehicle...and it's not good.
Okay, here's where things get difficult to swallow for you. The peerless speakers in the door will only give you so much bass. The location is the other difficult part. The doors. Yeah...
Here's what's going to happen. You're going to get them in the doors after a little deadening and hook them up to power. The bass response will he anemic. You'll decide to throw more power a them...and then your door panels will start, for lack of a better word, farting.
Placing kids in a door panel will require a good bit of deadening an attention. There's MUCH more to add to this part of the discussion. We'll get there when we get there.
Amps...what's your budget?
Don't get discouraged. This is the planning stage for you. Remember your five p's!
I scanned through your thread (btw, link has an extra http://). That looks insane. I think the price of your sub > my whole budget
.The headunit (9887) looks like its discontinued, so I'd have to buy it for $300 it looks like. Do you think it's worth it, or can you think of a better option for the price (including p-eq, active xover and all that)?
About the IB, did you mean folding down the back seats and putting the baffle in the opening? As much as I'd like to do that, I don't think I could permanently sacrifice my back seats. It seems like I could squeeze 8" subs in the rear deck speaker holes. If I mounted them from the bottom they would be fine except the 6" side of the hole. It looks like that's about as big as an 8" driver's cone, so that may work. Any opinion on this? I could try to attach a sheet of wood to the bottom of the rear deck to prevent rattling.
And I meant I'm looking for a flat response when everything is done. I'll be using the parametric eq to hopefully get rid of the major peaks that are sure to be there.
I was intending on deadening the doors. I was going to try to seal them up as much as possible. I'd rather not put them in the kick panels since that means loosing a lot of foot space (and a lot of work). Plus, the kick panels would aim them at my thigh which doesn't seem much better than my leg.
I did measure the speaker hole in the door and it is 6" so it will fit the peerless driver.
For amps, I haven't really set a budget, but cheaper is better. I don't need a ton of power, just more than enough to comfortably reach listening volume. Would you suggest I get something like a 5 channel and just amp everything at once? I don't need it ultra loud, just comfortable listening volume which I can get out of what I have now.
As you can tell the sub/amp are slightly out of my price range after HU, fronts, and deadening, but realistically I'm guessing it would be ~$300 (total) for a decent driver and amp. That's flexible though, if it would be junk I could stretch it, but I'd rather not.
One last thing, what's your opinion on sound deadening. Raammat seems to be popular on diymobileaudio, but I also came across Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information which seems to say that stuff like raammat is only good for absorbing vibrations, and not for blocking out noise. Should I use raammat or cld tiles sparingly, and get some mass loaded vinyl too? What about the foam they sell? Is all of that really necessary? Right now my doors are stuffed with polyfil
, just so my speakers don't sound terrible.The sub is a Hertz Mille 3800. It's in a sealed 1.75^3 fiberglass enclosure. Obviously the trim needs to be put in on the trunk.
That will be happening soon.
Yes, the 7998 is a discontinued Alpine. I used to run one years ago. They're a good tuner for a beginner. I wouldn't worry about using one if I were you. It'll be a good learning process.
Regarding the flat response, people will get nitpicky with you when you use that working. I understand what you mean. You just want the sound to be smoothed out from the peaky response you will ultimately have. I can tell you that the Yaris has a MEAN midbass peak around 100Hz. I had to kick back the EQ on that 4.5 dB at 125 Hz and the subsequent frequencies around it were dialed down to a lesser amount.
You can definately do a 5 channel. If you're looking for a bargain, look at Powerbass. They're engineered well enough and they put out very near rated power. I actually have an ASA 700.5 running my wife's component set and ID8 sub. I could use more headroom but it satisfies her needs..since she listens to talk radio more than anything... *GRRR*
Raammat is definately a brand you could use if you're trying to save money. I've used Rick's Ensolite on my front doors over Stinger's Roadkill. I also use Dynamat's Dynaliner (on the back doors) and Stinger's Overkill on the roof. That Overkill rawks my world! The next car I get into like this one, it's all going to be Overkill over matting.
To answer your last question, no, the foam isn't a requirement. You will notice that it does help though. The reason I use it is because I went 3/4s nuts on my install.
Other questions?
That will be happening soon.
Yes, the 7998 is a discontinued Alpine. I used to run one years ago. They're a good tuner for a beginner. I wouldn't worry about using one if I were you. It'll be a good learning process.
Regarding the flat response, people will get nitpicky with you when you use that working. I understand what you mean. You just want the sound to be smoothed out from the peaky response you will ultimately have. I can tell you that the Yaris has a MEAN midbass peak around 100Hz. I had to kick back the EQ on that 4.5 dB at 125 Hz and the subsequent frequencies around it were dialed down to a lesser amount.
You can definately do a 5 channel. If you're looking for a bargain, look at Powerbass. They're engineered well enough and they put out very near rated power. I actually have an ASA 700.5 running my wife's component set and ID8 sub. I could use more headroom but it satisfies her needs..since she listens to talk radio more than anything... *GRRR*
Raammat is definately a brand you could use if you're trying to save money. I've used Rick's Ensolite on my front doors over Stinger's Roadkill. I also use Dynamat's Dynaliner (on the back doors) and Stinger's Overkill on the roof. That Overkill rawks my world! The next car I get into like this one, it's all going to be Overkill over matting.
To answer your last question, no, the foam isn't a requirement. You will notice that it does help though. The reason I use it is because I went 3/4s nuts on my install.
Other questions?
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