Whats got your vote for the biggest bang for the buck upgrade out there for taking a completely stock car audio system and improving it a few notches at reasonable cost and with easy installation (preferably able to do by a novice)? I'm talking for true audiophile reproduction - making music more realistic and enjoyable, not for adding enough thump for your neighbor 3 lanes over to enjoy the bass as you approach, or for your passenger to ogle as the 4 new speaker cones you artfully replaced his airbag with bobble in the dash demonstrating their gloriously high Xmaxes. I'm looking for subtle, easy, inexpensive and effective. If I use any of the ideas, it would be going into an ancient '97 Lexus with a Nakamichi sound system.
Upgrades
By far the best upgrade for you would be a replacement of speakers. Car stereo shops have all the different sizes in stock configurations. Chances are you can't see the drivers in the doors and toward the back....so you can't make out just how bad they might be. If they are indeed the stock set-up they maybe damaged and you don't even know it!
Speakers in cars can be damaged severely by moisture...with it comes warping of cones with water damage & really bad deterioration of sound quality.
Don't go all psycho by buying up the most trick set-up.........perhaps the doors have 6 1/2 inch drivers....the rears six by nine, or five by seven...or whatever!
Be careful that the original grilles can be replaced...often times the more exotic versions $$$ will have you deleting the stock grilles for the aftermarket grilles......try to get the ones where you don't need "their" grilles. Nothing looks as tacky as todays current crop of aftermarket grilles. If the factory grilles won't work ask for something rather plain looking for grilles, you won't regret it!. Be carefull of monster magnets on said speakers as some don't have enough clearance on the back-side.
_____________________________________________________Rick.....
By far the best upgrade for you would be a replacement of speakers. Car stereo shops have all the different sizes in stock configurations. Chances are you can't see the drivers in the doors and toward the back....so you can't make out just how bad they might be. If they are indeed the stock set-up they maybe damaged and you don't even know it!
Speakers in cars can be damaged severely by moisture...with it comes warping of cones with water damage & really bad deterioration of sound quality.
Don't go all psycho by buying up the most trick set-up.........perhaps the doors have 6 1/2 inch drivers....the rears six by nine, or five by seven...or whatever!
Be careful that the original grilles can be replaced...often times the more exotic versions $$$ will have you deleting the stock grilles for the aftermarket grilles......try to get the ones where you don't need "their" grilles. Nothing looks as tacky as todays current crop of aftermarket grilles. If the factory grilles won't work ask for something rather plain looking for grilles, you won't regret it!. Be carefull of monster magnets on said speakers as some don't have enough clearance on the back-side.
_____________________________________________________Rick.....
I've always thought that replacing the head unit would be best - certainly improved the sound in my Dad's Focus. Also, it means that any speakers you do buy will be driven by something decent. Last thing you want to do is fit new speakers, then cook them with DC from an under-powered amp.
Chris
Chris
IMHO, the very first thing to do is get an decent 4-channel amp for the fronts and rears. This will net a HUGE improvement, even with everything else being stock.
Once I got some decent power to the fronts/rears in my car, the factory speakers sounded good enough for me to not even consider wasting money replacing them.
YMMV
Once I got some decent power to the fronts/rears in my car, the factory speakers sounded good enough for me to not even consider wasting money replacing them.
YMMV
So far You have been recommended to replace your head unit, amplifier, and speakers!
One improvement that you could make without junking what you already have is adding a resevior capacitor to the DC power input of your power amplifier.
Typically I have found that many car stereo systems cause the DC supply to sag with the bass beat. I don't think that the massive farad capacitors loved by some are necessary. I used a fairly large 25V cap from my junk collection. Probably even 22,000 uF would make a difference.
One improvement that you could make without junking what you already have is adding a resevior capacitor to the DC power input of your power amplifier.
Typically I have found that many car stereo systems cause the DC supply to sag with the bass beat. I don't think that the massive farad capacitors loved by some are necessary. I used a fairly large 25V cap from my junk collection. Probably even 22,000 uF would make a difference.
I guess a Lexus really is ancient @ '97, lol.
If you want to keep your stock head unit for ease of integration, JL makes something called a Cleansweep - it allows you to integrate aftermarket amps to your stock head unit. Lack of dynamic range by not having enough undistorted power is a huge problem in a stock setup.
If you want to keep your stock head unit for ease of integration, JL makes something called a Cleansweep - it allows you to integrate aftermarket amps to your stock head unit. Lack of dynamic range by not having enough undistorted power is a huge problem in a stock setup.
Thanks for all the input. I've about decided that I'll get the best bang for the buck for me with a speaker upgrade. I'm probably just going to replace the front door mids and tweeters for now. I haven't been able to find a wiring diagram online. Anybody know where the crossover components in a system like this are? I have the '97 Lexus SC400 with the "premium" Nakamichi system - but apparently this system uses the same Pioneer drivers as the "nonpremium" system.
I second,replacing factory amp. Many times replacing the factory speakers with better ones comes at a price of efficency. The new better quality speakers require more power and with the lack of power they are allowed to shine. And when looking for replacement speakers with similar sensitivy you will find their quality isn't much greater than the original ones. Since your car has componets,check to see what kind of condition they are in and buy an amplifier.
As far as,where are the crossovers for the car. Front and rear speakers run full range with simply a cap on the tweeters.
Good luck with the install.
As far as,where are the crossovers for the car. Front and rear speakers run full range with simply a cap on the tweeters.
Good luck with the install.
Well, there's part of the problem right there. If the only crossover component is a protective cap for the tweeter, I should be able to smooth things out quite a bit just by adding a few resistors and caps. The reason I'm tending toward the speaker replacement is that I already have apparently a pretty beefy amp (for stock), and I don't listen at high volume - I just want a higher quality sound. I think the weakest link in my system is probably the speakers. I may check into an amp upgrade after that.
Hmmmm...
Before you replace them, an inductor to LP them would probably help. Cone break-up sounds bad, so if you stop them playing so high, you'll probably get an improvement.
A second order crossover may help to integrate them better, too.
Here's a thought... For a professional, switching head units will be easy. How about you try a different one in, see if you like it. I expect most car audio shops will allow you to do that. You could always use one from the demo wall...
Before you replace them, an inductor to LP them would probably help. Cone break-up sounds bad, so if you stop them playing so high, you'll probably get an improvement.
A second order crossover may help to integrate them better, too.
Here's a thought... For a professional, switching head units will be easy. How about you try a different one in, see if you like it. I expect most car audio shops will allow you to do that. You could always use one from the demo wall...
When listening to the system, what is the biggest complaint?
Are you sure that all of the OEM speakers/tweeters are working properly?
What is the impedance of the OEM speakers? Sometimes, low impedance speakers are used to get more power from an amp with limited supply voltage. You may need an amp that can drive 1 ohm if they're using 1 ohm speakers. You can check the impedance of the drivers so you'll know what sort of amp you'll need. If you have to replace low impedance speakers with 4 ohm speakers, you'll lose power/volume.
Many times, the speakers are designed to operate with the limited power available. If you use an aftermarket amp that can drive more power to the speakers, they may not perform any better.
A lot of the OEM amps or head units have equalization built in to compensate for deficiencies of the speakers or problems with the acoustics of the vehicle. Aftermarket amps won't have this equalization and the system may require equalization to sound as good as the OEM amp.
Are you sure that all of the OEM speakers/tweeters are working properly?
What is the impedance of the OEM speakers? Sometimes, low impedance speakers are used to get more power from an amp with limited supply voltage. You may need an amp that can drive 1 ohm if they're using 1 ohm speakers. You can check the impedance of the drivers so you'll know what sort of amp you'll need. If you have to replace low impedance speakers with 4 ohm speakers, you'll lose power/volume.
Many times, the speakers are designed to operate with the limited power available. If you use an aftermarket amp that can drive more power to the speakers, they may not perform any better.
A lot of the OEM amps or head units have equalization built in to compensate for deficiencies of the speakers or problems with the acoustics of the vehicle. Aftermarket amps won't have this equalization and the system may require equalization to sound as good as the OEM amp.
Biggest complaint is some mild distortion - not like a speaker is blown, but like the difference between the sound of my high dollar tube main stereo and the old solid state Sony reciever through old inexpensive speakers in my workout room. This sounds like the workout room.
I'm not sure of the impedence of all the components, but I know the mids in the doors are 4 ohm. They're Pioneer and appear to have a whizzer cone. There are tweeters up high on the doors, then 2 more mids and a 10" sub in the back deck. My understanding is that the amp has 100 watts to the sub and 20 watts to each speaker.
By "an inductor to LP them" I assume you mean put a coil in series with the mids to roll the highs off?
Actually, I might see a big improvement by just doing that with the mids and replacing only the tweeters.
I'm not sure of the impedence of all the components, but I know the mids in the doors are 4 ohm. They're Pioneer and appear to have a whizzer cone. There are tweeters up high on the doors, then 2 more mids and a 10" sub in the back deck. My understanding is that the amp has 100 watts to the sub and 20 watts to each speaker.
By "an inductor to LP them" I assume you mean put a coil in series with the mids to roll the highs off?
Actually, I might see a big improvement by just doing that with the mids and replacing only the tweeters.
" ... When listening to the system, what is the biggest complaint? ..."
BINGO! Perry hit the nail on the head.
When money is an issue, you need to focus on what needs to be fixed, not what "would sound better" since there are a host of improvements you can make, best done in tandem, that will transform the whole system. But that's expensive.
Factory head amps are not as bad as everyone thinks; if you are not spending $200 chances are all you get are features, not sound improvement. You could spend twice that and STILL end up with bells-and-whistles and no sound improvement.
Speakers are a somewhat better bang-for-the-buck option, but it's also one of the more difficult options to pull off ... especially if sound quality is an issue. Car Audio suffers from a bit of a Jeckyl-And-Hyde syndrome, where the majority of products are there to sound bigger than life, not "real life", which brings up whether you will really achieve your goal of more fidelity within your budget, versus just "more". Still, it's worth exploring.
My personal favorite upgrade on the cheap? A set of "shaker" type transducers mounted under the front seats, coupled with the cheapest 50~100 watt amp you can find. Don't be afraid to bottom-feed with the amp ... these drivers don't need wild amounts of power, distortion figures are a non-issue, and low frequency (as compared to sub frequency, which is actually rare in car audio, despite what people try to sell you) is relatively easy for car amps to produce cleanly anyway. It's the power demand that gets you spending $$$. Make sure the amp has a built-in X-over and level control.
Do that, and you can improve the feel of the bottom, probably turn down the audible LF output of your current system, resulting in a cleaner bass/midbass response, and let the shakers bring back the feel of low bass to the system. The overall synergy works very, very well.
With some convincing LF, you could then add some HF supplement, say, with dash tweeters. The key is balance; you won't be satisfied if the lows or highs are missing when the opposite is present.
Those changes don't require you rip anything out and start over; no matter what you do in the future, you will want to keep the thumpers and that cheap amp under the seats ... guaranteed.
Then take it from there, or not, as your needs and cash allow in the future.
BINGO! Perry hit the nail on the head.
When money is an issue, you need to focus on what needs to be fixed, not what "would sound better" since there are a host of improvements you can make, best done in tandem, that will transform the whole system. But that's expensive.
Factory head amps are not as bad as everyone thinks; if you are not spending $200 chances are all you get are features, not sound improvement. You could spend twice that and STILL end up with bells-and-whistles and no sound improvement.
Speakers are a somewhat better bang-for-the-buck option, but it's also one of the more difficult options to pull off ... especially if sound quality is an issue. Car Audio suffers from a bit of a Jeckyl-And-Hyde syndrome, where the majority of products are there to sound bigger than life, not "real life", which brings up whether you will really achieve your goal of more fidelity within your budget, versus just "more". Still, it's worth exploring.
My personal favorite upgrade on the cheap? A set of "shaker" type transducers mounted under the front seats, coupled with the cheapest 50~100 watt amp you can find. Don't be afraid to bottom-feed with the amp ... these drivers don't need wild amounts of power, distortion figures are a non-issue, and low frequency (as compared to sub frequency, which is actually rare in car audio, despite what people try to sell you) is relatively easy for car amps to produce cleanly anyway. It's the power demand that gets you spending $$$. Make sure the amp has a built-in X-over and level control.
Do that, and you can improve the feel of the bottom, probably turn down the audible LF output of your current system, resulting in a cleaner bass/midbass response, and let the shakers bring back the feel of low bass to the system. The overall synergy works very, very well.
With some convincing LF, you could then add some HF supplement, say, with dash tweeters. The key is balance; you won't be satisfied if the lows or highs are missing when the opposite is present.
Those changes don't require you rip anything out and start over; no matter what you do in the future, you will want to keep the thumpers and that cheap amp under the seats ... guaranteed.
Then take it from there, or not, as your needs and cash allow in the future.
The shaker idea sounds cool, and I may try that sometime. The lack of deep bass doesn't bother me much though. I really like the idea though, as you definitely know where everyone will be sitting!
I think I'm gonna join the ClubLexus forum, as there have been several discussions about upgrading audio on my model car. I am still in a state of shock to think that in a "premium" sound system they would let most of the drivers run without any crossover components; I'd like to get some confirmation that that is the case before I start planning the upgrade and tear into it.
I'm thinking of using the Vifa OX20SC00-05 tweeters and theTang Band W4-1052SD mids in my upgrade. I'm not sure how the tweeter mounts in there though - it would be nice to find something that is a drop in replacement.
I think I'm gonna join the ClubLexus forum, as there have been several discussions about upgrading audio on my model car. I am still in a state of shock to think that in a "premium" sound system they would let most of the drivers run without any crossover components; I'd like to get some confirmation that that is the case before I start planning the upgrade and tear into it.
I'm thinking of using the Vifa OX20SC00-05 tweeters and theTang Band W4-1052SD mids in my upgrade. I'm not sure how the tweeter mounts in there though - it would be nice to find something that is a drop in replacement.
I went this route before, trying to figure out how to improve my system and asking around every where. Just listen to me here. Replace the speakers first. Always. Even the best stock speakers can be beat by $69.99/pr AM speakers.
After trying all the other little recommendations people told me I just went and replaced my speakers and that did the trick. I no longer want to touch my car setup.
Hope this helps.
After trying all the other little recommendations people told me I just went and replaced my speakers and that did the trick. I no longer want to touch my car setup.
Hope this helps.
Any reason I would need to use dedicated "car audio" speakers rather than "stereo" speakers? I have picked a couple that are the right size, sensitivity, impedence, etc., then started wondering if I need to worry about any difference in durability in hot/cold environment or other factors unique to car audio.
Here are the drivers I'm considering:
Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W4-1052SD 4" Driver 4 Ohm | full range driver 4" woofer extended range driver tang band tb speakers tangband-41108
Parts-Express.com:Vifa OX20SC00-04 3/4" Fabric Dome Tweeter | Vifa OX25SC65-04 3/4" tweeter vifa vline dome waveguide hf high frequency mtm horn loaded tymphany09
Here are the drivers I'm considering:
Parts-Express.com:Tang Band W4-1052SD 4" Driver 4 Ohm | full range driver 4" woofer extended range driver tang band tb speakers tangband-41108
Parts-Express.com:Vifa OX20SC00-04 3/4" Fabric Dome Tweeter | Vifa OX25SC65-04 3/4" tweeter vifa vline dome waveguide hf high frequency mtm horn loaded tymphany09
A well made speaker designed for a car will have great off-axis response (though very few drivers marketed for a car really do). In home applications you're listening position is almost always on-axis, in a car unless you get really custom with your install you're at least 30 degrees off-axis. Also be careful of the mounting depth on that mid. Those neo motors are probably a lot deeper than whatever is in there stock.
The only stuff really designed with "weather resistance" in mind is stuff marketed as "marine"
The tweeter looks like it could be problematic to mount, but I think a couple gobs of hot melt glue would probably get you by.
Otherwise, those components are probably as good as or better than most car specific stuff you'll find retailing for double the price.
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