New crossover. Got engine noise

[Perry Babin]

What you need to upgrade first is your savings account. If you want an audiophile system, save until you can buy it. I'd suggest buying everything at once. If you buy a piece at a time and it takes a long time to get everything, some of the warranties will have expired by the time you get everything you want.

For the best quality, you will likely use separates. Use the supplied crossovers. They often contain components that flatten the response and protect the drivers.

You MUST listen to the speakers before buying them. Bring your own music and make sure that all of the tone controls, equalization, loudness contours are set to flat or off. If they're going to be installed where you'll be well off-axis, listen to them that way as well as from directly in front of them.

If you're not sure what good quality sound is, find a good set of headphones. Grado and Sennheiser make good headphones for around $100. You can ask for suggestions on the headphones forum.

 

[Simbalage21]

What you need to upgrade first is your savings account. If you want an audiophile system, save until you can buy it. I'd suggest buying everything at once. If you buy a piece at a time and it takes a long time to get everything, some of the warranties will have expired by the time you get everything you want.QUOTE]

Took me some time to calm down before responding. The first time it was understandable to prove a point but whoa! I guess this would be a good reponse to give the next guy too asking how to add a sub to his stock stereo. I never said I wanted the best, and by seeing the crossover one automatically knows I am no audiophillie.. No harm in asking the real audiophillie whats good and whats not.. and when dealing with mid-grade stuff whats good, and whats just totally a waiste. Just so I dont wind up with a useless piece of equipment like this crossover.. Neverthless never said I wanted to purchase a 700.00 crossover.. just seeking info on crossovers so my next one will be better. I wound up putting the sony in so I have 3 rcas (front/rear/sub) as well as just set the amps crossover at 200 which sounds good. But my post was about a crossover that was giving engine noise.. Not how small my bank account is, or a debate that you got more money, or a better sound system so you can belittle me and say I need to upgrade my savings account. People build nice systems one piece at a time, and warranty doesnt really matter if you do it right... you blow speakers warranty isnt going to save you anyways.. but yea there is a nice way to help people and like i said your first post about saving and buying good stuff was ok, and then you repost and repeat the same thing, but were very harsh about it..

 

[Perry Babin]

No offense was intended. I took it that you were an audiophile by your discussion in the flac/lossless thread.

Some people are sensitive about the money they have (or want to have). Money means very little to me. I forget that others see money differently and get offended by comments like I made (which I still see as perfectly fine).

I don't understand why people get offended about anything. If someone tells me that I look like the back end of an old mule, that's their opinion and it means nothing to me. If someone tells me that something I've done is not as good as it should be, I look at it and try to determine if they're right or not. If they are, I work to improve whatever it is. If they're wrong, I ignore their comments. You should feel the same way. As long as you live your life in a way that's beneficial to society, you should feel good about yourself and you shouldn't let what others say get to you.

My suggestion is simply this... listen to what you have and save for the quality of equipment that you want. I can assure you that I can't buy everything I want right away. Generally, waiting results in better decisions and better purchases in the end. When technology is involved, waiting often allows you to get more for your money.

I've done nothing but try to help you. If you can't see that. I'm sorry.

 

[Simbalage21]

Hey, well let me put it this way.. I am becomming an audiophillie. I dream, and find myself finding ways to make it better instead of just settling. Like I said you are right to get good stuff even if it takes a while. I am a little sensitive about money ect because It not something I can easily fix.. I am 26 and disabled. Receiving a small ssi check thats barly enough to make ends meet. But when I do pay everything and have say 30 or so left, I will definatly take your advise and save.. but the upgrade the savings was a hit (for me anyways) below the belt. I think your a cool person, and after reading your reply I see you didnt mean it as a putdown

 

[ppia600]

Don't use an external electronic crossover... it will make things way less complicated and less likely to cause problems. The only way it would be advisable is if you were running VERY high end amplifiers and non-crossover head unit and running three or more components on each amplifier channel. You really aren't going to gain much using an external crossover and an average deck and amplifier(s). You can get EXCELLENT audio quality with a decent deck with internal crossovers, good name brand or better amplifiers and upper or top of the line name brand speakers/components. I would start with some pioneer premier, polk db or infinity kappa components. Those are all capable setups to start with. For amps sony, pioneer and kenwood actually sound pretty nice. I prefer kenwood excelon or pioneer upper line decks, many people like Alpine.

 

[Simbalage21]

Don't use an external electronic crossover... it will make things way less complicated and less likely to cause problems. The only way it would be advisable is if you were running VERY high end amplifiers and non-crossover head unit and running three or more components on each amplifier channel. You really aren't going to gain much using an external crossover and an average deck and amplifier(s). You can get EXCELLENT audio quality with a decent deck with internal crossovers, good name brand or better amplifiers and upper or top of the line name brand speakers/components. I would start with some pioneer premier, polk db or infinity kappa components. Those are all capable setups to start with. For amps sony, pioneer and kenwood actually sound pretty nice. I prefer kenwood excelon or pioneer upper line decks, many people like Alpine.

Hey you ... thanks for the response. I took the kenwood out and am using that sony with the crossovers.. However I found that the crossover in the 927 is sufficant. Dont know how to tell which radio is better.. Sony or kewood. Sony has 3 rca outs and the sub control. Anyways I used a 60hz test wav and the rca on both is that around 3v all the way up, so with clipping I'd assume its actually 2v, it reads that on all of them so I am not sure if this is shared or each rca is pushing 2-3v. Dont know how to read specs to see which is actually better. Going to go with Polk Components as my 12" Subs are the DB Series and sound good.. Running them with a kenwood monoblock

 

[ppia600]

Cool deal. I used to like the sony decks (early to mid 90's) but it seems like they changed to focus more on features than audio quality. You can get a high end sony and be amazed though. The kenwoods seem a little better with their normal decks and are very nice in the upper line. Either way you're going to get better results with that sony than the non-crossover kenwood. I've got the db6501 components by the way, pretty nice sounding.

 

[Simbalage21]

Cool deal. I used to like the sony decks (early to mid 90's) but it seems like they changed to focus more on features than audio quality. You can get a high end sony and be amazed though. The kenwoods seem a little better with their normal decks and are very nice in the upper line. Either way you're going to get better results with that sony than the non-crossover kenwood. I've got the db6501 components by the way, pretty nice sounding.

Yea, the sony having three rca outs and sub fadar.. However the kenwood seems well built.. How would one determine which is better based on these specs.. I am not using the internal amp so the watt it has isnt relavent..

I have attached a snip (below) of both the kenwood & sony. If anyone knows how to read these and tell which is better and why plz feel free to post back

Ok I just noticed you say the kenwood, but I already waisted the time to upload the pics. I dont understand S/n Ratios and all that. I'd like to know how people look at specs and determine the better of product.. I will look them components up as I know these house speakers I got upfront will blow soon... They are driven by KAC-927 which is 800X1 and the way speakers are wired 200x2@2Ohm all 4 on this 2channel till I get another 2channel to drive the rears separately

 

[ppia600]

I don't think you could hear an audible difference from the specs they give. The crossover in the sony is a big win over the kenwood though so between the two I'd go with the sony. The sony decks also started claiming a very high s/n ratio for the cd section in the past couple of years.

 

[Simbalage21]

I don't think you could hear an audible difference from the specs they give. The crossover in the sony is a big win over the kenwood though so between the two I'd go with the sony.

Cool thanx a million... Yea if now I knew what to set it and the amps crossover at. Currently I got my amp at 200hz and not using the radio crossover... 200 is just to get me by till i order some components... Then I will be posting to ask.. .HEcK I'll ask ahead.. With good components.. what would be best setup amp to full and use sony crossover in radio.. or radio set to full and use the amp variable crossover. And to what point for good set of components if I use the amps Xover. Radio only has the 2 listed above post

 

[ppia600]

Cool thanx a million... Yea if now I knew what to set it and the amps crossover at. Currently I got my amp at 200hz and not using the radio crossover... 200 is just to get me by till i order some components... Then I will be posting to ask.. .HEcK I'll ask ahead.. With good components.. what would be best setup amp to full and use sony crossover in radio.. or radio set to full and use the amp variable crossover. And to what point for good set of components if I use the amps Xover. Radio only has the 2 listed above post

Use the one in the deck, set to 125hz and the amp crossover to full range. If that doesn't give enough mid bass drop it to 78. Be sure so seal your doors well. You can always run the deck full range and try with the amp if it has a variable frequency control, might be easier to match the speakers. Try setting them up without the subs at first to listen for distortion.

 

[Simbalage21]

Use the one in the deck, set to 125hz and the amp crossover to full range. If that doesn't give enough mid bass drop it to 78. Be sure so seal your doors well. You can always run the deck full range and try with the amp if it has a variable frequency control, might be easier to match the speakers. Try setting them up without the subs at first to listen for distortion.

Quick responses your awsome. another question, and I promise to give ya a rest.. before i go try that.. there is also a lowpass. my monoblk has built in xover which is set to 60hz.. you cant turn it off..am I good there with the LP on deck at off?also if I wanted to add some "Woofers" to get more midbass would this be good.. or will them components solve the problem? also if they use passive wont the 2 crosovers conflict? or will it just drop low low bass.. and the passive sort out the frequencies from whats set on the deck to mid-tweeter? Also the kac has upto 200hz variable.

 

[ppia600]

You can try tuning the mids with the amp's crossover first and see where it sounds best. Depending on how close it is to the deck's internal crossovers if you end up being really close to 125hz you can just use the amp's crossover or the deck. It may sound better being able to use the variable crossover.


For the subs, I'd use the lowpass in the deck at 78 if possible, 60 is kind of low unless you have components in tuned enclosures allowing lower response to get better midbass. Sounds odd the amp's crossover won't go higher than that, they usually go up to 150-200hz even on class 'd' amps. If you HAVE to use 60hz, run the sub output on the deck on 'full' or 'off', you don't want to lose too much low level audio, the mids might not be able to make up for the difference.

Quick responses your awsome. another question, and I promise to give ya a rest.. before i go try that.. there is also a lowpass. my monoblk has built in xover which is set to 60hz.. you cant turn it off..am I good there with the LP on deck at off?also if I wanted to add some "Woofers" to get more midbass would this be good.. or will them components solve the problem? also if they use passive wont the 2 crosovers conflict? or will it just drop low low bass.. and the passive sort out the frequencies from whats set on the deck to mid-tweeter? Also the kac has upto 200hz variable.

 

[Simbalage21]

You can try tuning the mids with the amp's crossover first and see where it sounds best. Depending on how close it is to the deck's internal crossovers if you end up being really close to 125hz you can just use the amp's crossover or the deck. It may sound better being able to use the variable crossover.


For the subs, I'd use the lowpass in the deck at 78 if possible, 60 is kind of low unless you have components in tuned enclosures allowing lower response to get better midbass. Sounds odd the amp's crossover won't go higher than that, they usually go up to 150-200hz even on class 'd' amps. If you HAVE to use 60hz, run the sub output on the deck on 'full' or 'off', you don't want to lose too much low level audio, the mids might not be able to make up for the difference.

ahh so you try and match the high and lowpass? I mistaken. Its set at 60hz and is also variable, to I believe 150..but u cant turn it off.

So if I am following you.. 78hz on the lp 125 on the hp via deck.. then what does the monoblock xover goto if the deck is supplying the xover frequency? Man I feel special now.. As I try to move into higher and correctness, your helping with what I got, and what to buy as I go... Mad props for your help

 

[ppia600]

Cool, just simplify it and use the crossovers in the amp. You want to tune the mids first to get them to play as low as possible without distortion. If they can play with the amp's high pass set to ~100-120hz for example, let them do it. Then you just tune the bass amp starting from a low number and turn the knob up towards 100-120 until it sounds just right to you. You don't want it to be a higher low pass frequency than your high pass is set to ideally or there will be a frequency range that is pretty muddy and exaggerated. Ideally you want the amp's low pass for the subs set as low as possible (as long as the mids can fill in) so it sounds like the music is coming from the mids, you don't want to hear voice coming from the trunk for example.

ahh so you try and match the high and lowpass? I mistaken. Its set at 60hz and is also variable, to I believe 150..but u cant turn it off.

So if I am following you.. 78hz on the lp 125 on the hp via deck.. then what does the monoblock xover goto if the deck is supplying the xover frequency? Man I feel special now.. As I try to move into higher and correctness, your helping with what I got, and what to buy as I go... Mad props for your help

 

[Simbalage21]

Cool, just simplify it and use the crossovers in the amp. You want to tune the mids first to get them to play as low as possible without distortion. If they can play with the amp's high pass set to ~100-120hz for example, let them do it. Then you just tune the bass amp starting from a low number and turn the knob up towards 100-120 until it sounds just right to you. You don't want it to be a higher low pass frequency than your high pass is set to ideally or there will be a frequency range that is pretty muddy and exaggerated. Ideally you want the amp's low pass for the subs set as low as possible (as long as the mids can fill in) so it sounds like the music is coming from the mids, you don't want to hear voice coming from the trunk for example.

ok cool, I have learned a lifetime of knowlege in 5 minutes. When you say go as low as possible on the mids, how will you know your too low? Getting into quality seems the higher the frequency the less distortion, lower more distortion.. So Would I have to lower the gain to achieve lower frequency? and is there where I would 100% notice better results using the expensive components? aka better speakers taking more power & A Lower Frequency? I am sorry if I bugged you.. You dont know how much a difference you taking the time to explain this to me really means to a newbie comming into quality. I hear everyone in my neighborhood with bass and distorted vocals and I want to overcome this by all means.. doing so means learning 2 buy the right stuff this time around

PS: Do you use a test tone to achive this or regular music you listen to?

 

[Simbalage21]

Added more equipment... Anyone

500 is too high if the high pass slope is about 12db like most outboard crossovers because if the speaker has low sensitivity in the frequencies below that (500 down to 65/70hz) you won't hear anything below 500hz and it will sound like the midbass is coming entirely from the rear i.e. you'll have a portion of the sound missing. You want the mids to play as low as they can efficiently do so the image comes from in front, not the trunk. A lot of people run a really high high pass for the mids and highs to prevent distortion but the distortion is usually caused by something else like bass boost on the deck that makes it through the crossover or lack of power for example.

When I put a system together I prefer:

Deck with good crossover, hp in front and rear about 70/80hz and low pass for the subs about 70/80hz
Amps with no crossovers or crossovers set to off/full range

or

Deck with crossovers set to off/full range and amplifiers with good crossovers set to the frequencies same as above

In both situations its good to use passive crossovers for the mids (if you're running components) to help keep some of the highs from the mids and make them more efficient at producing their intended range. Nowadays subs can run with no passive crossovers because at those power levels they are very inefficient and sap tons of power. A decent crossover in the deck or amp is sufficient for subs most of the time. I don't like using outboard crossovers as internal deck crossovers and internal amp crossovers have improved over the years and prevent noise issues (like yours) and also added distortion which no one likes.

The new amp Got is a Coustic Power Logic Amp Model - Amp 360
I have this running to my rears, KAC-927 to the fronts (by Itself now not with rears) as well as the monoblock. I swapped out the Kenwood for the sony.. I know its cheaper but it has built in crossovers. My question being for that Coustic being 65W RMS it reallly put alot. I have the gain all the way down otherwise my rears pop with the bass. As you may know its an old school without crossover. If I set the crossover on the deck at 125 or 75 (i belive) then both front/rear rca output are effected.. but sub output is not. Would the stock preset xover frequency sound better at the deck for both amps, or should I leave it off and keep the rears at full and the fronts set with the amps built in variable xover? The crossover I bought I sold it thank god.. so that solved my engine noise.. but what would be the best way to set this up to the correct frequencys? Also I am thinking about putting the diamond xovers I got that go on the speaker side. Can you use a passive crossover with active crossover set? (VIA Deck or amp) or will they conflict? I only ask because I have a 11Uf (a cap off a 6x9 tweeter) for my tweeters, and mids directly to the amp and many say this is not sufficiant.. How would I get active and passive work together.. as I am still confused about using 2 crossovers..

 

[Simbalage21]

Did I do it right?

Ok recap

Sony Headunit (3 Rca outputs) [sub/rear/front]
Kac927 2channel amp (on Fronts)
Old School Custic (On Rears)
Monoblock (On Sub)

I set all crossovers to full EXCEPT on monobock.
Set headunits HP to 78 (which appears to crossover front/rear)
Set headunit LP to off (Because on the monoblock you cant turn it off)

Installed a set of diamond crossovers to replace the caps I was using for the tweets (From blown 6x9) on the front speakers...

Rears are coaxial and I've set the gain on this amp a lil lower...


Is this optimal setup with what i've got now? also should I cross the monoblock to 78 to match the HP of 78?

Thanks in advanced. Here is some pics of the speakers in front and crossovers I installed...