Anyone tried individual L&R speakers for driver and passenger?

[mazdapowered]

Inspired by Patrick Bateman’s thread ‘any one tried using one tweeter’ on DIY Mobile Audio, I set about the car with a pair of peerless 2” drivers to do some testing. First up were positions similar to what Patrick suggested, initial impressions were excellent but after a short while of listening, I decided I wouldn’t be able to live with this, as the sound stage was very material dependent and seemed to be continuously shrinking and expanding.

Then I set about repositioning them in the car and trying different cross over frequencies to see where a good imaging and soundstage could be found. Crossing over at 500hz (limited by the items to hand) I placed the speakers right in front of driving position on the dash (see pic). This resulted in a fantastically precise (but narrow) soundstage with everything placed perfectly in front of me at head height, great dynamics and sounding very similar to listening to a pair of monitors in the near field. There were slight problems with the imaging, as <500hz was done by a pair of speakers chucked in the foot wells, with no TA etc. I’m also not sure what the effect would be once this is duplicated on the passenger side.

Had a friend listen to this setup, to do a double check and whilst he was astounded by the imaging and depth but he hated it. He thought it just didn’t sound right in a car but maybe we are conditioned to expect a different sound in a car.

Although fraught with problems, as a proof of concept it appeared to work quite well. Has anyone tried anything similar?

[jol50]

I love Patrick's posts and try to keep up with them. I've tried all kinds of stuff, some cars even had speakers in the headrests. I get fatigued with most of that stuff as well as processing. I don't even have my T/A on now I killed the battery one day and lost settings...and the drivers are so-so right now it sounds better without.

I like a wide stage, headphone wide, and good response. In the end I just run rears and dial on them until it works the way I want. I get more midbass and a left channel outside the window. Its not perfect and takes some matching work, but better than all the other stuff so far. Can also do stealth install that way that I prefer, and performance outside the car with rears is much better since it occasionally does duty as a large portable yard radio if I have a big project. With rears I can even run less power per channel and lower rated drivers since I get more midbass that way.

Just can't beat that setup for 20yr now I keep going back to it, yet it is ironic how many people hate rears. On the other hand they were very common when I started into this. They do have to be tuned in right to work well, sometimes it takes a lot of swapping and other tuning to make me happy. I had it working well in this car, got 'better' comps for the front and it never worked as well. Yeah, have three sets of speakers sitting here to try plus the old ones.

One of my better daily driver cars the stage was quite good, it had plain 1" soft domes just above my elbow if I had my hands on the wheel. Not sure why that car worked so well that way, but it did. I have a harder time with newer smaller cars these days as the door is so close.

Did you see one of his last posts about the directional tweeters with the lenses? I think you could run four of those, two to each side, it could work well for front passengers. Not sure everyone would like it.

[mazdapowered]

Originally Posted by jol50

I love Patrick's posts and try to keep up with them.

Patrick's post are most interesting, it appears he feels that there must be a better way to get a good sound in a car. After listening to dealers car recently stuffed full of Genesis stuff, thousands worth of equipment and IMHO it was average at best. At this point I thought there must be a better way to get a gound sound, obviously throwing money at the problem does not a good system make.

Originally Posted by jol50

I like a wide stage, headphone wide, and good response.

Ah, this is intersting. I don't perceive headphones to sound wide at all, the sound seems locked in my head. I don't perceive depth very well at all and when my friend listened to the driver L&R setup he felt that the soundstage was very 3D with it sounding as if the sound was well forward almost over the bonnet, to me was around the steering wheel.

Originally Posted by jol50

Iironic how many people hate rears. On the other hand they were very common when I started into this.

I've always run a little rear to, for me the rear passangers get something to listen to and can be used to add extra ambience.

Originally Posted by jol50

Did you see one of his last posts about the directional tweeters with the lenses? I think you could run four of those, two to each side, it could work well for front passengers. Not sure everyone would like it.

I think this really has some merit, if a sound lens can distribute the sound level evenly between the passanger and driver (given the distance differences), this really could be a good way forward. Maybe I need to blag myself a demo at an Aston Martin dealer .

[jol50]

Originally Posted by mazdapowered

Patrick's post are most interesting, it appears he feels that there must be a better way to get a good sound in a car. After listening to dealers car recently stuffed full of Genesis stuff, thousands worth of equipment and IMHO it was average at best. At this point I thought there must be a better way to get a gound sound, obviously throwing money at the problem does not a good system make.

I love getting something for nothing, though you run a greater risk of "un-success" with cheap equipment. Mostly only do that with speakers and never with HU/processing and never use the very cheapest amps.

Originally Posted by mazdapowered

Ah, this is intersting. I don't perceive headphones to sound wide at all, the sound seems locked in my head. I don't perceive depth very well at all and when my friend listened to the driver L&R setup he felt that the soundstage was very 3D with it sounding as if the sound was well forward almost over the bonnet, to me was around the steering wheel.

I like the speakers far apart as possible 90%, the other 10% is to the front. 10% is still forward, just wide as possible and forward. Everyone else seems to want in front of them, to me wider is wider. The rear gives me the left channel to the far left and in many cars I don't want to be without it. I don't fully get depth either, to me depth is being immersed in the music so there is no depth really just mostly width. I'd rather stand on the front of the stage in a concert instead of in the audience. However, certainly I'm not locked in stone when it comes to the above its just a goal. I love surround for example in a HT, though you can't go that far in music it would be fatiguing after a bit, far as excessive movement. I guess in the end I'd say I would like to reach out and touch the artist, far as depth. I bet many would say that is a shallow stage, lol.

Originally Posted by mazdapowered

I think this really has some merit, if a sound lens can distribute the sound level evenly between the passanger and driver (given the distance differences), this really could be a good way forward. Maybe I need to blag myself a demo at an Aston Martin dealer .

Sounds like a good idea for two tweeter install.

If going with four seems like you might just get some cheap tweets that beam like crazy, and try it, certainly directional tweets would work great if you have a set for each side....I would think. Something with a horn/guide. Even if the response is off some you would know how it worked far as staging/directionality/depth/etc. Beaming you could cut the power down a lot too, might reduce reflections significantly.

Thing is those ones he is talking about at 180 degree are for use in a standard setup, I would look for 30 degree or something and aim right at the head in particular the center units so they don't overlap to the other side. There is little reason for dispersion if you have a tweeter for every ear, unless you want reflections.