I just ordered an Adire Audio "Shiva" sub driver... 12" for my 2k maxima. I'm going to mount it in the trunk, hopefully building a fiberglass enclosure based on the instructions zx3chris wrote up here:
http://web.njit.edu/~cas1383/glassing2/
Has anyone heard anything about this driver? I read a bunch of really good stuff about the Adire Brahmas.
I'm going to be using an Orion HCCA-225 a friend gave me and a (shitty) 2nd order passive xover I made the other night until I have the time to make the 4th order active xover at ESP (and buy a headunit with preamp outs).
Thanks,
Jacob
http://web.njit.edu/~cas1383/glassing2/
Has anyone heard anything about this driver? I read a bunch of really good stuff about the Adire Brahmas.
I'm going to be using an Orion HCCA-225 a friend gave me and a (shitty) 2nd order passive xover I made the other night until I have the time to make the 4th order active xover at ESP (and buy a headunit with preamp outs).
Thanks,
Jacob
I have a tempest (basicly a 15" shiva) and it is a great sub for the money. I have never heard a sub that could play that clean and loud for such a good price. With that said I do have a problem with mine. I hate the dual 8 ohm voice coils. Unless you are running 2 you are going to have to spend a little bit more money on an amp when you get around to getting a better one.
Also try to make your enclosure as much to spec as possible. These subs like a lot of room.
Also try to make your enclosure as much to spec as possible. These subs like a lot of room.
The Orion HCCA amp is a GREAT amp in terms of sound and build quality but it's not the best for your situation. It was designed as a "cheater" amp for competition. Classes are defined by amp power into 4 ohms. This amp puts out 25 watts per channel into 4 ohms but it is stable to 1/2 ohm stereo (200watts/channel) or 1 ohm mono (400 watts). I know earlier Orion amps required a bridging module so you may have to purchase it.
The Shiva is a great sub but if you connect each 8 ohm voice coil to the Orion, you will only be pushing 12.5 watts per channel. If you wire the coils parallel (creating a 4 ohm load) and bridge the amp you will be pushing 100 watts.
If you want to keep the amp call Adire (or whom ever you purchased it from) and try to cancel the order. Pay a little extra and get a Stryke AV-12. You can parallel it's dual 2 ohm coils and the amp will be pushing 400 watts. Or you could sell the amp on e-bay and get a good price for it. As a replacement get an amp that maxes it's power into 4 ohms mono.
-Robert
The Shiva is a great sub but if you connect each 8 ohm voice coil to the Orion, you will only be pushing 12.5 watts per channel. If you wire the coils parallel (creating a 4 ohm load) and bridge the amp you will be pushing 100 watts.
If you want to keep the amp call Adire (or whom ever you purchased it from) and try to cancel the order. Pay a little extra and get a Stryke AV-12. You can parallel it's dual 2 ohm coils and the amp will be pushing 400 watts. Or you could sell the amp on e-bay and get a good price for it. As a replacement get an amp that maxes it's power into 4 ohms mono.
-Robert
Well, the Shiva was already on its way from acoustic-vision.com. I suggested my friend take back his Orion amp when it turned out he needed it back.
So now the sub project I started because it would be mostly free is now not free at all :\
So, the Shiva is on its way, I have ordered PCB's from Elliot Sound for a really nice Linkwitz Reily phase coherent crossover, and a constant-Q 8 band sub equalizer:
http://sound.westhost.com/project84.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm
Now I just need to pickup an amp to drive the whole thing. I am a little bit reluctant to build a DIY car amp though. I think I am just going to get a commercial amp for this.
Thanks for all the info!
-Jacob
So now the sub project I started because it would be mostly free is now not free at all :\
So, the Shiva is on its way, I have ordered PCB's from Elliot Sound for a really nice Linkwitz Reily phase coherent crossover, and a constant-Q 8 band sub equalizer:
http://sound.westhost.com/project84.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm
Now I just need to pickup an amp to drive the whole thing. I am a little bit reluctant to build a DIY car amp though. I think I am just going to get a commercial amp for this.
Thanks for all the info!
-Jacob
jmartinson how much do you know about car audio? IF you don't know much I could give ya some tips and give you some enclosure recomendations (depending on your wood working skills, SQ and SPL level desired and room available).
Before I do that though I need to know what your system consists of. What is your head unit, front stage, and the rest of your current setup?
Also, you do know that most car amps come with a built in crossover (although yours may be better the the one in the amp depending on the amps quatlity).
Any EQ is a great idea but I am wondering you you wouldn't be better off with an EQ for your whole system. You would need either a constant q 31 band eq or a 5-7 band parametric EQ. With these EQs you could not only tune your sub but you could also tune your whole system flat (and the adjust to your tastes). Granted this needs an amp to run your front speakers but even a cheap amp is better then running off of your head unit.
Sorry if I am going beyond what you had planed but if you want your car to sound good it wouldn't take much more money. The way I see it is this.
sub - on its way
amp for sub - Needed (if you give me a price range I could find some options)
Wiring - about $50 mabey more depending on quality and gauge
now for added stuff
amp for front speakers ($100 or less)
EQ ($120-$200)
Wire ($20)
Before I do that though I need to know what your system consists of. What is your head unit, front stage, and the rest of your current setup?
Also, you do know that most car amps come with a built in crossover (although yours may be better the the one in the amp depending on the amps quatlity).
Any EQ is a great idea but I am wondering you you wouldn't be better off with an EQ for your whole system. You would need either a constant q 31 band eq or a 5-7 band parametric EQ. With these EQs you could not only tune your sub but you could also tune your whole system flat (and the adjust to your tastes). Granted this needs an amp to run your front speakers but even a cheap amp is better then running off of your head unit.
Sorry if I am going beyond what you had planed but if you want your car to sound good it wouldn't take much more money. The way I see it is this.
sub - on its way
amp for sub - Needed (if you give me a price range I could find some options)
Wiring - about $50 mabey more depending on quality and gauge
now for added stuff
amp for front speakers ($100 or less)
EQ ($120-$200)
Wire ($20)
When I got the car, it had a stock head unit with stock speakers.
I have a set of Polk 6.5" coaxials on the way for the front and a set of Blaupunkt 6.5" coaxials for the rear.
My head unit doesn't have any preamp outs. I am going to be taking a line level split off the rear right speaker with some resistors to make a line output converter.
That is going to go into the ESP crossover. From there it will go into the equalizer, then into whatever amp I end up using. I've got a 200W bridgeable Coustic amp that blows fuses when powered on. I am going to try to fix that.
I don't have the money at this point to replace the head unit and get an additional amp. When I do, I will use the ESP crossover to send highs to an amp driving my coaxials and lows to the sub amp.
I didn't want to go with a commercial crossover (or any cheap crossover built into an amp) b/c I want something that won't throw the bass out of phase at all.
I have a set of Polk 6.5" coaxials on the way for the front and a set of Blaupunkt 6.5" coaxials for the rear.
My head unit doesn't have any preamp outs. I am going to be taking a line level split off the rear right speaker with some resistors to make a line output converter.
That is going to go into the ESP crossover. From there it will go into the equalizer, then into whatever amp I end up using. I've got a 200W bridgeable Coustic amp that blows fuses when powered on. I am going to try to fix that.
I don't have the money at this point to replace the head unit and get an additional amp. When I do, I will use the ESP crossover to send highs to an amp driving my coaxials and lows to the sub amp.
I didn't want to go with a commercial crossover (or any cheap crossover built into an amp) b/c I want something that won't throw the bass out of phase at all.
my main constraints are financial. i mean, i would like to have a sub equalizer, and a seperate 12-band eq for the rest of the spectrum, a nice MP3 head unit, 3-way ESP crossovers and triamp everything, but....
at this point i am just trying to piece things together one by one w/o buying anything i won't be able to use in the final setup. that's why I am going with the ESP crossovers b/c i will be able to use them for biamping when i get a real head unit.
at this point i am just trying to piece things together one by one w/o buying anything i won't be able to use in the final setup. that's why I am going with the ESP crossovers b/c i will be able to use them for biamping when i get a real head unit.
Ok I am guessing you are somewhat into SQ and not looking to be really loud. If so you have some problems with this setup unless I am missing something.
The first is that you are installing rear speakers. You are concerned with the phase of the sub when you really should be worried about your rear speakers. When it comes to car audio rear speakers are bad (do you ever goto a concert and put your back to the stage?). They will do nothing but distort your imaging and sound stage. They will also really mess up your phase. The only way to undo this is to band pass them from about 100-600 hz and keep them really low in volume and even then you may have phase problems. I also don't belive in using coaxils but they are a good option if you don't have the money and time to install a set of seperates. I personaly would return the rear speakers and use the money else where
Are you installing the front speakers in the doors or into kick pannels?
a high level to low level will work and isn't a bad option but remember that switching to a good headunit with perouts will make a big difference.
Is the ESP crossover adjustable? If so what is it's range? If not I suggest you go with something else.
Like I said your EQ is fine but you may want to wait and buy a 31 band eq or 5-7 band parametric (anything lower will not work efectivly except mabey a lower band parametic).
There are other problems but they may be getting a little to detailed. I have had to peice my system together because of money constraints but I have learned that it is best to save and wait so I could get the right peice rather then buy somthing that will work for now and buy the thing I want later.
The first is that you are installing rear speakers. You are concerned with the phase of the sub when you really should be worried about your rear speakers. When it comes to car audio rear speakers are bad (do you ever goto a concert and put your back to the stage?). They will do nothing but distort your imaging and sound stage. They will also really mess up your phase. The only way to undo this is to band pass them from about 100-600 hz and keep them really low in volume and even then you may have phase problems. I also don't belive in using coaxils but they are a good option if you don't have the money and time to install a set of seperates. I personaly would return the rear speakers and use the money else where
Are you installing the front speakers in the doors or into kick pannels?
a high level to low level will work and isn't a bad option but remember that switching to a good headunit with perouts will make a big difference.
Is the ESP crossover adjustable? If so what is it's range? If not I suggest you go with something else.
Like I said your EQ is fine but you may want to wait and buy a 31 band eq or 5-7 band parametric (anything lower will not work efectivly except mabey a lower band parametic).
There are other problems but they may be getting a little to detailed. I have had to peice my system together because of money constraints but I have learned that it is best to save and wait so I could get the right peice rather then buy somthing that will work for now and buy the thing I want later.
I am not talking about phase issues above 100Hz. When you use a passive crossover the bass gets put 90 degrees out of phase with every additional order you add.
So a 12db/octave low pass filter will put the bass 180 degrees out. A 24db/octave filter will put it 360 degrees out, which results in a feeling that the bass isn't quite in time with the rest of the music.
It is my understanding that a lot of cheap active crossovers have a similar problem.
The reason I am putting rear speakers in the car is so the passengers in the back can hear the music. The interior of the car is kind of long and I have already made one party/road trip and the people in the back couldn't hear the music w/o me turning it up in the front louder than I liked.
Yes, I am more interested in quality than volume level (compared to most car audio enthusiasts anyway), but from what I have read on the Shiva, it delivers well in both areas.
Also, when I get the time/money I plan to line the floor and doors with (cheap) stuff from this site:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/ep/edead.htm
-jacob
So a 12db/octave low pass filter will put the bass 180 degrees out. A 24db/octave filter will put it 360 degrees out, which results in a feeling that the bass isn't quite in time with the rest of the music.
It is my understanding that a lot of cheap active crossovers have a similar problem.
The reason I am putting rear speakers in the car is so the passengers in the back can hear the music. The interior of the car is kind of long and I have already made one party/road trip and the people in the back couldn't hear the music w/o me turning it up in the front louder than I liked.
Yes, I am more interested in quality than volume level (compared to most car audio enthusiasts anyway), but from what I have read on the Shiva, it delivers well in both areas.
Also, when I get the time/money I plan to line the floor and doors with (cheap) stuff from this site:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/ep/edead.htm
-jacob
to answer another question... the polk 6.5" speakers are going into the existing door panels. I am going to (I plan to anyway, once they come in) remove the tweeter from the center mount and put that in the existing tweeter spot on my A pillars.
I'm not too sure how that is goingto turn out though.
Also, I just bought some bipolar caps to reduce the amount of bass that will reach the 6" drivers once I get the sub in.
I'm not too sure how that is goingto turn out though.
Also, I just bought some bipolar caps to reduce the amount of bass that will reach the 6" drivers once I get the sub in.
"I am not talking about phase issues above 100Hz" well you should be considering them because cars rarely have terrible phase issues with the bass freq. The real trick to good sound in a car if FR and correct phase. FR is easier to get right (EQ) but Phase is all about placement (and if you are using more then 2 speakers). If you constantly have people in the back seat who are listening to music with you then go ahead and keep the rears. I personaly don't have people in the back seat and when I do they are so close to the sub that it doesn't matter if I have rear speakers or not. Also a well setup pair of front speakers will reach the back but I have a feeling that you are not going to be intalling and tunning your speker placement (ie. installing them in kick pannels). While you don't have passangers in your car make sure to move all the sound to the front speakers.
I looked at the site for the crossover but it seems like you have to litteraly unsolder the componants to change the freq. Is this right? If so I would not use it. If you only need to plug in the peice to change the freq make sure that you get all available levels between 50hz-80hz so you can tune you sub to the rest of your system. I see that the crossover requires +/- 15V. Are you going to be making a custom ps for it then? If so remember that voltage in a car system can change drasticly and rapidly. You also should consider making your crossover 24db instead of 12db (or adjastable).
The sound deadening you picked is great for the money. I personaly use elasoflex (a roofing material) that has a smell for a while but works great. Sound deadening will make a world of difference if you do it in the right places and install it correctly.
I looked at the site for the crossover but it seems like you have to litteraly unsolder the componants to change the freq. Is this right? If so I would not use it. If you only need to plug in the peice to change the freq make sure that you get all available levels between 50hz-80hz so you can tune you sub to the rest of your system. I see that the crossover requires +/- 15V. Are you going to be making a custom ps for it then? If so remember that voltage in a car system can change drasticly and rapidly. You also should consider making your crossover 24db instead of 12db (or adjastable).
The sound deadening you picked is great for the money. I personaly use elasoflex (a roofing material) that has a smell for a while but works great. Sound deadening will make a world of difference if you do it in the right places and install it correctly.
I don't want to sound like I am insulting you but I think you need to go and read some more about car audio and redesign your setup. What you are doing to save money is going to end up costing you more in the end.
Here is the basic KISS setup for really good car audio
head unit---amp for sub----sub in sealed,IB, or AP enclosure
\
amp for front speakers----front speaker crossover - Mid
\
Tweeter
There is no better sounding setup for the money spent.
Also it looks like you need 2 RCAs running to your amps but you could run your sub amp off the front speaker amp's line out.
From here the only thing to add is an EQ if you want.
Remember all car audio is 90% install and 10% componants.
goto http://www.carsound.com and read and ask questions.
P.S. If you planed on taking the tweeters of the coaxils why did you buy them? You could of got a decent set of componants for about the same price and they would of sounded much better.
Here is the basic KISS setup for really good car audio
head unit---amp for sub----sub in sealed,IB, or AP enclosure
\
amp for front speakers----front speaker crossover - Mid
\
Tweeter
There is no better sounding setup for the money spent.
Also it looks like you need 2 RCAs running to your amps but you could run your sub amp off the front speaker amp's line out.
From here the only thing to add is an EQ if you want.
Remember all car audio is 90% install and 10% componants.
goto http://www.carsound.com and read and ask questions.
P.S. If you planed on taking the tweeters of the coaxils why did you buy them? You could of got a decent set of componants for about the same price and they would of sounded much better.
A few closing remarks:
1. I bought the Polk and Blaupunkt coaxials for $50 total shipped. I have not been able to find a set of good components shipped for that much.
2. If you would choose an adjustable low end crossover that affects the integrity of your bass (which is included in many amps as you mentioned above) over a high end phase coherent crossover, there isn't much you could say that would "insult" me.
3. A passive crossover will turn your bass progressively out of phase depending on the order of the crossover. If you like the way that sounds, you don't have to go to the trouble or expense of buying/building a hifi crossover. I prefer faster, tighter, more accurate bass, which is why I am taking the time to put together a high end low pass for my sub.
4. The crossover shown is a 24db/octave crossover.
1. I bought the Polk and Blaupunkt coaxials for $50 total shipped. I have not been able to find a set of good components shipped for that much.
2. If you would choose an adjustable low end crossover that affects the integrity of your bass (which is included in many amps as you mentioned above) over a high end phase coherent crossover, there isn't much you could say that would "insult" me.
3. A passive crossover will turn your bass progressively out of phase depending on the order of the crossover. If you like the way that sounds, you don't have to go to the trouble or expense of buying/building a hifi crossover. I prefer faster, tighter, more accurate bass, which is why I am taking the time to put together a high end low pass for my sub.
4. The crossover shown is a 24db/octave crossover.
1. $50 for 4 speakers is great. I would take that myself.
2. I don't think you have had much experience with car audio. The amount of phase change becuase of your lowend crossover is negligable becuuse of the small space and the amount of sound that is actualy affected (even if the soound leaves the speaker at 180deg out of phase that doesn't mean that it's absolute phase, when it reaches your ears, will be out of phase). Also was not talking at all about a higher end crossover. I was talking about speaker placements affect on phase on on how running rear speakers affects phase. My whole point is when it comes to your situation you are focusing on the wrong things. There are certin aspects when it comes to car audio that take presidence.
3. Ummmm this has nothing to do with the crossovers in car audio due to the fact that they are all active except for the crossovers that are for your front componants. You do know that the crossovers in all car audio amps are active and are on the line side and not passive and affecting the speaker side.
4. I'm sorry I thought I read 12/db an octave.
2. I don't think you have had much experience with car audio. The amount of phase change becuase of your lowend crossover is negligable becuuse of the small space and the amount of sound that is actualy affected (even if the soound leaves the speaker at 180deg out of phase that doesn't mean that it's absolute phase, when it reaches your ears, will be out of phase). Also was not talking at all about a higher end crossover. I was talking about speaker placements affect on phase on on how running rear speakers affects phase. My whole point is when it comes to your situation you are focusing on the wrong things. There are certin aspects when it comes to car audio that take presidence.
3. Ummmm this has nothing to do with the crossovers in car audio due to the fact that they are all active except for the crossovers that are for your front componants. You do know that the crossovers in all car audio amps are active and are on the line side and not passive and affecting the speaker side.
4. I'm sorry I thought I read 12/db an octave.
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