When the tweeters are say behind the side mirror covers, you don't really notice the lower ones being covered some. I don't think they change xover any different than other setups. It is better to have the tweeter and mid close together but in a car you do what you can. There are some really tiny tweeters but they tend to only play very high, but are easier to mount in tight spots. They should help.
that will always be the issue with a door mounted driver.... along with tactile energy transfer... it's hard trying to create a believable stage with door mounted drivers..
the sail panel is a great place to put a tweeter... allot of times it's the widest part in the car... I try to stay away from pilar mounted anything.. as you deal with relection issues... timing issies... off/on axis issues...
the sail panel is a great place to put a tweeter... allot of times it's the widest part in the car... I try to stay away from pilar mounted anything.. as you deal with relection issues... timing issies... off/on axis issues...
Dan2:
IMO, that's the biggest problem with front speakers in a car.
The best solution to that problem is to mount the front speakers in/on the dash, or high in the doors. Or simply don't allow passengers in the front seat.
Perhaps the best option along those lines is 3-way with midbass down low where space is available, and mid/tweeters up high. Of course, this is more expensive and complicated. Driver choice and crossover design is very important in this solution.
IMO, that's the biggest problem with front speakers in a car.
The best solution to that problem is to mount the front speakers in/on the dash, or high in the doors. Or simply don't allow passengers in the front seat.
Perhaps the best option along those lines is 3-way with midbass down low where space is available, and mid/tweeters up high. Of course, this is more expensive and complicated. Driver choice and crossover design is very important in this solution.
Can't have it both ways
Dan2,
Speaker placement low in the doors is poor from a sound quality standpoint. SQ is low on most auto makers' priority list. Overcoming this does involve mounting a higher frequency driver in a higher location in the vehicle. There are two approaches but neither will leave you car looking stock unless it already has a high mounted tweeter.
First approach is to mount a good quality tweeter up high on the door or on the A pillar and cross it over a low as possible. This usually means crossing over at 2500 - 3000 Hz. Tweeters that can go lower safely are very expensive and usually have flanges that are too large for unobtrusive car stereo applications.
The other approach that I am experimenting with is to mount a 3" full range driver up on the dash or the A pillar and cross it over to the door woofer at 200-300 Hz. This however, will definitely not keep the interior looking stock.
If you absolutely don't want to alter your interior, the only other approach that may improve the sound quality is to mount good co-axial speakers in the doors with tweeters that can be aimed up towards your ears.
Dan2,
Speaker placement low in the doors is poor from a sound quality standpoint. SQ is low on most auto makers' priority list. Overcoming this does involve mounting a higher frequency driver in a higher location in the vehicle. There are two approaches but neither will leave you car looking stock unless it already has a high mounted tweeter.
First approach is to mount a good quality tweeter up high on the door or on the A pillar and cross it over a low as possible. This usually means crossing over at 2500 - 3000 Hz. Tweeters that can go lower safely are very expensive and usually have flanges that are too large for unobtrusive car stereo applications.
The other approach that I am experimenting with is to mount a 3" full range driver up on the dash or the A pillar and cross it over to the door woofer at 200-300 Hz. This however, will definitely not keep the interior looking stock.
If you absolutely don't want to alter your interior, the only other approach that may improve the sound quality is to mount good co-axial speakers in the doors with tweeters that can be aimed up towards your ears.
Re: Can't have it both ways
just thinking now, i have space by the speakers to put seperate tweeters that i might be able to point upwards - i will have to look again though.
how will that sound compared to having the tweeters facing straight out??? also, should i then disconnect the tweeters that are already on the speakers??
BTW thanks guys for all the info so far ;-)
mda185 said:
just thinking now, i have space by the speakers to put seperate tweeters that i might be able to point upwards - i will have to look again though.
how will that sound compared to having the tweeters facing straight out??? also, should i then disconnect the tweeters that are already on the speakers??
BTW thanks guys for all the info so far ;-)
How tweeters in the doors that are aimed will sound depends on the design of the tweeter. If the tweeter has flat, extended response on-axis with gradual roll off in response off-axis, then aiming them at your head should improve SQ significantly. The presumes that you have a properly designed crossover network to take advantage of the tweeter's capability.
Some mobile audio tweeters are designed with a nasty peak in on-axis response and off axis response that is extended. Peerless has a tweeter like this. Aiming a tweeter like this will probably just hurt your ears.
In either case, you must disconnect the existing tweeters.
Some mobile audio tweeters are designed with a nasty peak in on-axis response and off axis response that is extended. Peerless has a tweeter like this. Aiming a tweeter like this will probably just hurt your ears.
In either case, you must disconnect the existing tweeters.
mda185 said:
Some mobile audio tweeters are designed with a nasty peak in on-axis response and off axis response that is extended. Peerless has a tweeter like this. Aiming a tweeter like this will probably just hurt your ears.
but surely tweeters like this will do the same no matter where you place them
The Peerless tweeter I referred to is low cost (-$15.00 US). I think the idea behind that design was to make something for the lower end of the market that sounded bright no matter where it was mounted. I don't think they intended to sell to a customer that cared much about sound quality.
In their defense, a car cabin is a very reflective environment. It is quite possible that the average reflected sound that reaches your ears from a tweeter with a peaked response on-axis will sound OK if you are off axis.
I did not like how the Peerless tweeter sounded in my kick panels but maybe other folks did. I bought it as part of a component set from Adire Audio that claimed to be high end quality. It was one of the worst purchases I made in the past few years and Adire is now out of the business.
In their defense, a car cabin is a very reflective environment. It is quite possible that the average reflected sound that reaches your ears from a tweeter with a peaked response on-axis will sound OK if you are off axis.
I did not like how the Peerless tweeter sounded in my kick panels but maybe other folks did. I bought it as part of a component set from Adire Audio that claimed to be high end quality. It was one of the worst purchases I made in the past few years and Adire is now out of the business.
ok i got one more question. lets say i am going to try put tweeters at the bootom of the door where the speaker is already placed. do i aim the tweeter upwards so i hear the tweeter closest to me - or try position it so that, with a passenger i can still hear the tweeter from the passenger side??
There are many folks that will disagree with this but, in my experience, it sounds better when the tweeter is mounted close to the midwoofer and the tweeter is aimed up towards the driver's ears. When the tweeter is mounted 2 feet or more away from the midwoofer, there is no way to get good integration between the drivers in the crossover region.
Door mounted drivers that are mounted close to each other still have the problem of not integrating properly because the listener's ears are way off axis to the door closest to them. That is one of the big reasons why kick panel mounted speakers that are aimed became so prolific in competition cars. I don't like kick panel mounted drivers in my cars because they take too much space away from my feet if they are aimed properly.
Every choice involves trade offs. Based on your stated priorities, I think door mounted tweeter and midwoofer close to each other is best choice. You just have to live with reduction in sound quality when a passenger is present.
Door mounted drivers that are mounted close to each other still have the problem of not integrating properly because the listener's ears are way off axis to the door closest to them. That is one of the big reasons why kick panel mounted speakers that are aimed became so prolific in competition cars. I don't like kick panel mounted drivers in my cars because they take too much space away from my feet if they are aimed properly.
Every choice involves trade offs. Based on your stated priorities, I think door mounted tweeter and midwoofer close to each other is best choice. You just have to live with reduction in sound quality when a passenger is present.
Borrowing an old thread
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I'm about to replace my VW Passat 2002 original 2-way front speakers. There is 5-6" in the bottom of door panel and dome tweeter in pillar A.
If I do not want to buy finished set, what kind of drivers would be good for car hifi? I don't understand why car sets have cross over around 4000 Hz if midbass is located quite low? Also I do not want to assembly any subwoofers so I thought that buying sturdy 6,5" drivers with low Fs I can achieve decent bass from front speakers. Why midbasses for car has so high Fs? For lighter cone and better efficiency? They have usually 55-75 Hz Fs.
Has any one designed their own 2way front speakers? (at this time I'm going to use just receivers own amp so passive setup)
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I'm about to replace my VW Passat 2002 original 2-way front speakers. There is 5-6" in the bottom of door panel and dome tweeter in pillar A.
If I do not want to buy finished set, what kind of drivers would be good for car hifi? I don't understand why car sets have cross over around 4000 Hz if midbass is located quite low? Also I do not want to assembly any subwoofers so I thought that buying sturdy 6,5" drivers with low Fs I can achieve decent bass from front speakers. Why midbasses for car has so high Fs? For lighter cone and better efficiency? They have usually 55-75 Hz Fs.
Has any one designed their own 2way front speakers? (at this time I'm going to use just receivers own amp so passive setup)
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