Right now I have a Pioneer head unit driving two 10" woofers in the rear seat. They are actually PA speakers with the tweeters disconnected. I want to build a different box and put some higher quality speakers in it. I don't want to buy an additional amp right now. I'm happy with the volume, it's the quality I'm trying to change.
My question is: Should I use regular woofers or subwoofers? I'm looking at the pyle subwoofers that partsexpress sells. I'm worried that the 4 ohm ones would overpower my front speakers which are either an 8 or 12 ohm load. Right now I have 8 ohm woofers in the back, so maybe i should get a DVC sub and wire it for 8?
Thanks for any advice.
My question is: Should I use regular woofers or subwoofers? I'm looking at the pyle subwoofers that partsexpress sells. I'm worried that the 4 ohm ones would overpower my front speakers which are either an 8 or 12 ohm load. Right now I have 8 ohm woofers in the back, so maybe i should get a DVC sub and wire it for 8?
Thanks for any advice.
PA speakers are relatively efficient. Car subwoofers tend to be significantly less efficient. There's almost no chance that the head unit will be able to drive the subwoofers to the same level as the PA speakers. Expect a significant decrease in SPL level (using the head unit's internal amplifier). You'll almost certainly need an amplifier if you use car subwoofers.
Home woofers typically need a larger enclosure for a flat response. If you need more/better low bass, add an amplifier. You can find decent amps (used) at good prices.
When you buy a sub, don't buy one that has an RMS power handling rating significantly higher than the amp you intend to use. Too many people buy woofers rated to handle 1000+ watts and try to drive them with a 200 watt amp. Woofers rated to handle more power typically require more power than woofers rated to handle lower power (200-250 watts).
When you buy a sub, don't buy one that has an RMS power handling rating significantly higher than the amp you intend to use. Too many people buy woofers rated to handle 1000+ watts and try to drive them with a 200 watt amp. Woofers rated to handle more power typically require more power than woofers rated to handle lower power (200-250 watts).
I should probably give you some back history on my vehicle. It's an older minivan that I plan to drive until it finally kicks it, so I have some room for a good sized cab. I did try a little amp connected to my head unit, but something in the circuit picked up engine noise. I could never figure out a way to get rid of the noise and gave up. Now I'm a little nervous about buying amps.
About the home woofers, If I built a box big enough, would they be suitable replacements for the PA cabs I have in the back right now?
Thanks again.
About the home woofers, If I built a box big enough, would they be suitable replacements for the PA cabs I have in the back right now?
Thanks again.
If the noise was very loud, you probably had an open shield on the head unit's RCA output.
http://bcae1.com/images/rca/temporaryrcashieldrepair.html
If the noise was just enough to be annoying, it could have been due to a poor quality input circuit on the amplifier.
Car subs are designed to have a 3dB down point at a relatively high frequency. The cabin gain of the vehicle boosts the low end so that, when the system is properly set up, the bass response is relatively flat. Home woofers will have a lower 3dB down point when in the proper enclosure but when you add the cabin gain, the bass on the very low end may be too much. If you have the home woofers and an enclosure, you can try it. If you have to buy the woofers, you may not be happy with the results.
http://bcae1.com/images/rca/temporaryrcashieldrepair.html
If the noise was just enough to be annoying, it could have been due to a poor quality input circuit on the amplifier.
Car subs are designed to have a 3dB down point at a relatively high frequency. The cabin gain of the vehicle boosts the low end so that, when the system is properly set up, the bass response is relatively flat. Home woofers will have a lower 3dB down point when in the proper enclosure but when you add the cabin gain, the bass on the very low end may be too much. If you have the home woofers and an enclosure, you can try it. If you have to buy the woofers, you may not be happy with the results.
If you have a budget, then start out cheap. I'd buy a 4x50rms amp (or up to 4x100rms), maybe an alpine/kenwood/RF/MTX/etc amp and older ones tend to be good amps just ask here. You are talking under $50 shipped (maybe 40) on epay or look/barter at pawn shops for a deal....if you shop around. Then I'd get some pyramid originals subs should be able to run them fine with 50-75rms a sub in 10"/12" size even 15s. They are cheap, sometimes real cheap on ebay for the blue ones I just scored a set of 10s for <25 shipped. I used to run them long ago in 2cf each ported, was tuned pretty low, or low as cheap 10s can get. Often I ran 4 of them IB. The clear poly version is ok if you don't use them IB, IMO. They are efficient don't need a lot of amp to get them going, they seem to work great just will not take a lot of power but they will get somewhat loud. If you beat them hard bottoming them they just break. Later you can get something better, and you can run your fronts with the 4ch amp also. IMO $10 subs are $1K better than no subs 
but just a suggestion.
but just a suggestion.And why not with a single home woofer/subwoofer? A peerless XXLS which retails for about 170$ is superior to any car subwoofer. Pyle, pyramid and etc. are chinese stuff made by people that wear leaves instead of shoes and are far away from anything I would describe as a loudspeaker.
If you look for something cheaper, look for a Visaton W250S or SC - it is a very good german built driver and is suitable for car audio use. I use a home woofer ( B&W 8" woofer with active xo at 80Hz ) in my car and i would never go back to a car audio driver again.
Regarding the CD - it has an output of 10W rms max, most of the units I have measured have a power transformer with the size of a quarter, do not expect power. You will need an external amp, and again - not Pyramid, Pyle and etc.
Cheers,
Mario
If you look for something cheaper, look for a Visaton W250S or SC - it is a very good german built driver and is suitable for car audio use. I use a home woofer ( B&W 8" woofer with active xo at 80Hz ) in my car and i would never go back to a car audio driver again.
Regarding the CD - it has an output of 10W rms max, most of the units I have measured have a power transformer with the size of a quarter, do not expect power. You will need an external amp, and again - not Pyramid, Pyle and etc.
Cheers,
Mario
I would reccommend buying an amplifier and run maybe one 12'' sub. If you buy a decent sub and put it in the right enclosure its gonna sound way better than any PA speakers that are being powered by the headunit, or by an amp for that matter. When it comes to good sound quality, cutting corners isn't an option. I would suggest a JL Audio W3 D4. I have a huge amount of experience not only with JL, but with the W3 series in specific. The W3 is a DVC sub that sounds amazing and won't leave you broke. So I would run about four hundred watts (give or take a few) to both voice coils in a parallel set up. This will have the amp at a 2 Ohm load. Standard for any BASIC single DVC subwoofer setup. So thats my thoughts on the matter. Let me know what you end up doing.
"Well there is nothing like trying and learning. There is a reason why there are car subs, home subs, and PA subs."
Yes there is a reason and it is dust, moisture and the car`s specific acoustics. If you look for a good SQ, and by SQ I do mean real good sound achievable only by expensive and knowledgeable built home audio, then you should pass by on 99% of the car components. The only components that look ok ( but not very good ) are the Hybrid Audio component systems, PHASS` stuff and on the leading position - Seas` Lotus and Alpine F1 status component systems, although Alpine is using the coated version of the SS woofer which is not as good as the non coated one and also they use steep xovers which will lead to hard phase shift alignment and have poor transient response.
The JL is a good offer, I have heard a few from the expensive series and they are really good, although I would prefer a Peerless or a Scanspeak sub woofer.
Yes there is a reason and it is dust, moisture and the car`s specific acoustics. If you look for a good SQ, and by SQ I do mean real good sound achievable only by expensive and knowledgeable built home audio, then you should pass by on 99% of the car components. The only components that look ok ( but not very good ) are the Hybrid Audio component systems, PHASS` stuff and on the leading position - Seas` Lotus and Alpine F1 status component systems, although Alpine is using the coated version of the SS woofer which is not as good as the non coated one and also they use steep xovers which will lead to hard phase shift alignment and have poor transient response.
The JL is a good offer, I have heard a few from the expensive series and they are really good, although I would prefer a Peerless or a Scanspeak sub woofer.
Home woofers actually sound pretty gonna in the van in a big box. But you guys are right, they aren't subs! I ended up trading something on craigslist and ended up with two rockford punch 10s that are rated at 150 rms and 400 watts max. I love my head unit, but I don't want to deal with the ground issue.
What would be a good amp to drive both of them? Also, what would be a good choice for a head unit?
What would be a good amp to drive both of them? Also, what would be a good choice for a head unit?
In my experience you can get good sound out of cheaper speakers, it just gets more hit and miss the cheaper you go. On top of that a car is such an acoustic mess, one speaker may work nice and not in another car or install. Plus there are a lot of expensive home speakers that use the same drivers you can buy from Seas/etc quite reasonable....but that does not make them perfect for your car necessarily. You have a lot more EQ power these days then we used to, I used to run no EQ at all because everyone I tried in the 80s was noisy. Yeah, I swapped a lot of drivers and changed installs to get it right.
Other issues with say a car sub besides the environment, they are tuned lower for a smaller box. I would say some high power drivers now can be used in both home and car there is little difference if any in some of them. Back in the day they were more different, you never saw a big magnet on a home speaker and the home speaker could never work IB....but now many can. Also in my experience a sub is the last thing I look for quality in, I can get sub sound out of near any price sub unless you have a specific need such as a tiny box, to go really loud say over 1kw, etc...depending on needs of the system of course.
For the subs you have, if 150rms each then you want around 300-400rms amp is what I would use. Less if you abuse stuff, maybe more if you are careful. Look up the specs on them likely they tell what box or T/S so you can model them. What amp depends on your budget, what brands you like, etc. I'd run a class D mono they take less power though at that range you should not drain most cars anyway.
Other issues with say a car sub besides the environment, they are tuned lower for a smaller box. I would say some high power drivers now can be used in both home and car there is little difference if any in some of them. Back in the day they were more different, you never saw a big magnet on a home speaker and the home speaker could never work IB....but now many can. Also in my experience a sub is the last thing I look for quality in, I can get sub sound out of near any price sub unless you have a specific need such as a tiny box, to go really loud say over 1kw, etc...depending on needs of the system of course.
For the subs you have, if 150rms each then you want around 300-400rms amp is what I would use. Less if you abuse stuff, maybe more if you are careful. Look up the specs on them likely they tell what box or T/S so you can model them. What amp depends on your budget, what brands you like, etc. I'd run a class D mono they take less power though at that range you should not drain most cars anyway.
Do you think 130 RMS would be too little to drive the subs? I'm looking at this amp. http://www.dakmart.com/product_info.php?products_id=9988
That amp is almost guaranteed to be a POS. I have nothing good to say about Sony Xplod series components and I have owned more than a few. There is a reason this is refurbished. If I may suggest, look at one of these:
Cerwin Vega EXL 400.4. This is a very high quality amp for the price. It was designed by Robert Zeff's company and is very similar to some high end amps he produced over the years. Cerwin Vega couldn't sell them and dumped all their stock on the surplus market a year ago. It bridges to 200 watts RMS X 2 channels. You can still find them on Ebay and Ubid. There are also forum members on DIYMA that put them up for sale periodically. I just bought one for $116.00. It is far superior to the Sony Xplod amp.
Another way to go is look for an older used Alpine amp. The Alpine MRP-F240 is a 4 X 40 watt amp with very good build quality and decent sound. I own one and have been very pleased with it. It should sell for around $75.00-90.00 used. It is bridgeable to 100 watts RMS X 2.
Whether 130 watts is enough to drive the subs depends on your listening habits and the enclosure. If you don't need to share your bass with the neighborhood, 100 watts is probably more than enough. In general, the larger the enclosure, the better the efficiency of the speaker. If the Rockfords are designed for a 1.5 - 2.0 cubic foot enclosure, I expect that they will sound good with either of the amps I recommended above - as long as you don't need 120 + dB SPL all the time. The Cerwin Vega is obviously going to drive them louder with twice the power. This is highly recommended by more folks than me. Do a Google search and see for yourself.
Cerwin Vega EXL 400.4. This is a very high quality amp for the price. It was designed by Robert Zeff's company and is very similar to some high end amps he produced over the years. Cerwin Vega couldn't sell them and dumped all their stock on the surplus market a year ago. It bridges to 200 watts RMS X 2 channels. You can still find them on Ebay and Ubid. There are also forum members on DIYMA that put them up for sale periodically. I just bought one for $116.00. It is far superior to the Sony Xplod amp.
Another way to go is look for an older used Alpine amp. The Alpine MRP-F240 is a 4 X 40 watt amp with very good build quality and decent sound. I own one and have been very pleased with it. It should sell for around $75.00-90.00 used. It is bridgeable to 100 watts RMS X 2.
Whether 130 watts is enough to drive the subs depends on your listening habits and the enclosure. If you don't need to share your bass with the neighborhood, 100 watts is probably more than enough. In general, the larger the enclosure, the better the efficiency of the speaker. If the Rockfords are designed for a 1.5 - 2.0 cubic foot enclosure, I expect that they will sound good with either of the amps I recommended above - as long as you don't need 120 + dB SPL all the time. The Cerwin Vega is obviously going to drive them louder with twice the power. This is highly recommended by more folks than me. Do a Google search and see for yourself.
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