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Old 3rd January 2009, 08:02 PM   #1
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Default Is it possible to be too "old school"

THis may seem like a idiot question to some but I was wondering if modern semiconductors have a non use shelf life.

For instance, after the Chinese attack the US in 2014 and a new race of genetically engineered superhuman rule upper world can I still hook up my unused LP amp made in the 80s and have every component still function at its designed tolerance, and expect it to work if unused 200 years or more down the road?

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~JH
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Old 3rd January 2009, 08:27 PM   #2
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"Modern" semiconductors ought to have a life of a few hundred years, except maybe for a few bad batches that fail prematurely.

Certain series of germanium transistors are known to be failing now, because of tin crystals that grow inside the casing shorting the junction.

*Electrolytic* capacitors certainly do not last; 1960s and 70s made capacitors seem to last a lot longer than modern chinese ones, but they all dry up as they age, and cease to function eventually. Keeping them cool prolongs their life, but its not forever.
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Old 3rd January 2009, 09:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
*Electrolytic* capacitors certainly do not last; 1960s and 70s made capacitors seem to last a lot longer than modern chinese ones,

The Chinese just haven't got the technology for caps yet. They have tried every way including industrial espionage to try and get the technical know-how but the Japanese aren't giving it up so easily..lol lol lol
Plus the use of caps at very high frequency has increased exponentially as electronics has speeded up a whole bunch since the 60's and 70's. High frequency energy issues were always a short coming of capacitor technology, its just more so nowadays as the Chinese try to make caps the old fashion way with all the new demands upon them that current high bandwidth electronics needs.

And yes Metal spikes are killing electronics. The manufacturing process and material sciences are the root cause, along with a general lack of long term scientific knowledge of just what happens to metals over time after semiconductor processing occurs.
And with most manufacturing of semi's in China now its pretty doubtful they will figure it out either.

I had the chance to work with some really bright people out here in Silicon Valley over the years. But many of them were chased away by the Wall street types that could only see money, not materials science, and the long term downside of using certain materials in this business. Just look at the no lead issue currently. Semi's use just about every know material possible. I have even seen radioactive gas's being used in Semi processing. The Tin issue was known about by intelligent metallurgical specialists long ago. The problem was the money people weren't listening, especially when they looked at the down the road long term effects to the company bottom line.
Detroit could build a car that lasted your entire life, but wheres the profit in that, eh?

I was reading the tech spec on a AMD processor that someone gave me the other day, and it has 221 MILLION transistors on its die. Thats 221 million chances at reject or early failure. Then you put in a poor but cheap metal like Tin in the picture lol well I'm amazed it even made its way out of the Fab into everyday use.

Then there is the theoretical computing block coming with transistor die size as we approach the very molecular limits of being able to make a transistor work because there just isn't enough material used to allow the transistor to operate as we know it does currently.
This should be a real eye opener as it comes to light. I see Electronics as we know it today being replaced with an entirely new molecular level technology. I hope to be around to see it come about, it should be a truly interesting time, just like the early Silicon Valley, only no silicon lol lol...
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Old 6th January 2009, 01:43 AM   #4
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I have gone even older school. I finally have my 12 volt motion control unit

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Old 6th January 2009, 03:28 AM   #5
ppia600 is offline ppia600  United States
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Ok, someone please clarify what these /\ are useful for? I haven't heard anyone actually explain what they do.
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Old 6th January 2009, 04:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by ppia600
Ok, someone please clarify what these /\ are useful for? I haven't heard anyone actually explain what they do.
I may end up being corrected, but this is what I know about the unit.

1. You have to make a sealed enclosure that resonates @ 70 Hz (generally .5 cubic feet for an 8 or .75 cubic feet for a 10, depending on the subwoofer used).

2. This unit compares input to output and makes the appropriate corrections to trick the subwoofer into thinking it is in a bigger cabinet, thereby giving you a decent low frequency extension

It was initially designed to work with an Orion 280 GX, which I am still searching for, but the builder adjusted my Orion 250 SX to work with the unit. In addition to being a subwoofer motion controller, this unit is also an electronic crossover and a bridging module for the older series of Orion amplifiers.

I am planning on using this in a stealth install in my girlfriend's 2006 Mazda Tribute, but first I am planning on testing it in one of my vehicles with a pair of super cheap 10s
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Old 6th January 2009, 06:30 PM   #7
jol50 is offline jol50  United States
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I fail to see the huge values in some old amps, certainly someone does. Still I have managed to get some old ones I wanted or wanted to try out for pretty reasonable, so I can't complain. But it is just idle curiosity for me, or a hobby.

What I really wish for is someone who knows a lot to chat about the differences in old and new amps, far as sonic and power differences, etc. I use them I know there are differences, mostly for me it is in the sound. I don't know how much of it is quality and how much is just color as many newer amps seem to be similar and more flat sounding than old ones. Some old brands I don't care for and some of those are very popular, while other brands I like are not that high priced like say old alpines. I've done a lot of searching and read many ancient posts here and it is still hard to find any real comparison testing or in depth discussion about car amp aspects of performance. Seems like its not a big deal since they are relatively simple things, just that some of us are too interested in them?

Trying to fix a power supply and then have to mount some resistors, then I can do some simple power testing on some amps. That should be fun. Going to try to figure out if I can get my scope to show how the amp distorts, or at what frequencies. If I can compare two I am familiar with that might show me something.
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Old 9th January 2009, 07:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 0ldSch00lf00l
It was initially designed to work with an Orion 280 GX, which I am still searching for, but the builder adjusted my Orion 250 SX to work with the unit. In addition to being a subwoofer motion controller, this unit is also an electronic crossover and a bridging module for the older series of Orion amplifiers.

I am planning on using this in a stealth install in my girlfriend's 2006 Mazda Tribute, but first I am planning on testing it in one of my vehicles with a pair of super cheap 10s
Better stock up on 2N6488 and 2N6491 Trans, and have a good alternator. Great amp with lots of power. Just likes to burn at the first sign of low voltage. The SX series seemed to hold up a whole lot better. If you can get the job done with the SX, I would highly recommend it.
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Old 9th January 2009, 08:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomtomjr


Better stock up on 2N6488 and 2N6491 Trans, and have a good alternator. Great amp with lots of power. Just likes to burn at the first sign of low voltage. The SX series seemed to hold up a whole lot better. If you can get the job done with the SX, I would highly recommend it.
I think I will just stick with the 250 SX then. I am going to make this part of an SQ setup for my girlfriend, and she has told me over and over again that she didn't want extreme bass like i have in my two vehicles.
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