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Old 27th December 2008, 09:28 PM   #1
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Default toroidal transformer replacement

I have an Orion Concept 97.1 on the bench, found a shorted winding in the transformer.. Any one know of a vendor to get transformers from? I am not into trying to do this one myself!

Sam
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Old 28th December 2008, 03:48 AM   #2
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The transformers are all custom made for a particular amp. You won't find an off-the-shelf replacement. You can have them made but you'll have to pay quite a bit to get a single transformer.

The transformer doesn't appear to be complex (assuming it's like the 425hcca). If it only has primary and secondary windings, the hardest part will be finding the correct size wire (which shouldn't be difficult).
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Old 28th December 2008, 03:52 AM   #3
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I pulled a transformer from a china amp that ran the same outputs and fets as the orions.. the PS output voltage of the oem transformer was 45v the coil I installed is like 51.

the amp seams to be running cool. I am going to put it on the load bank in the morning and play it for some time..

Anyone think I should change gate resistors to make the fets switch faster with the higher voltage?

I think it may be ok to leave it like this as we usta run the 2100s at 16v and 18v for crankITups.

any in put?
Thanks
Rock
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Old 28th December 2008, 04:53 AM   #4
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Wow perry you must have been posting at the same time I was... I just noticed your post...

Well if you can get them custom made where can you get them from..

I found a page here on the board from what I can see from his page it looks like he sells some.

his page is http://valveaudio.tripod.com/schematics.htm

I was also thinking of checking with the guy from Lunar Amps in Opelousas La, he build his own amps.. and does repairs on other brands also. I think he may sell parts pices.. I know I have worked on a few items he has upgraded, he does mods to 2100s and 275g4 so you can push them at lower ohm loads, nice work i must say!

this 97.1 is working good with the transformer I put in there.. its running about 90deg pushing 6 6x9s right now... I will put on my load bank in the morning and see how hot i can get it check for trash in the audio signal as it gets warmed up.

Luckley the transformer that was bad was on CH3 AND CH4 so if some one drives a sub with it I will have a bit more voltage for the sub side. I will post the wattage i get from it tomorrow.. I also have an unmoded unit in the shop right now to compair readings with...
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Old 28th December 2008, 05:16 AM   #5
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I don't know what the owner wants but MANY of the people who use/own amps like these are collectors and would be VERY dissatisfied/angry if they found that you used a transformer out of a Chinese amp. This can severely damage your reputation.

Again, I suggest that you re-wind the original core (unless it's cracked). It's not really difficult on a simple transformer like this one. This is something you need to learn to do.

When you have higher rail voltage, it means that the outputs AND the power supply FETs will be stressed more than normal and reliability may be a problem.

I don't know what sort of regulation (if any) that this amp has but the larger amps have voltage regulation to limit the rail voltage so running them at 18v makes no difference as far as the outputs and rail caps are concerned. If this amp has regulation, it's either only monitoring one supply or is not working properly. If this amp has 50v rail caps and no regulation, the caps may fail prematurely.
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Old 29th December 2008, 10:39 PM   #6
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Amp has no regulation. caps are 55V they look like they have been changed in the past.

the amp the transformer came from used the same fets and outputs as the orion..

I know this still not making it correct voltage for this amp, It just some of the info I was thinking when I tried to putting it in the orion.

I will tell you this.. the transformer from the china amp is a lot better than the oem orion. the wire is a larger size its wound tighter an has a nice epoxy coating..

I am going to call the guy from lunar amps to see if he could make me one..

I donot want to rewind the whole thing as it is shorted primary to secondary, I feel that the odds are I will end up cracking and shorting the new windings I would be working with..


If the amp were for me I may try rewinding but I dont want to send it out the door with a transformer I have no fath in.


I did not get to do any more testing on the amp I had fly offshore to do some work for Shell.. I should be back in the next day or so
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Old 30th December 2008, 04:28 PM   #7
jol50 is offline jol50  United States
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Is it possible to change the windings (# of turns) on the new transformer if you must use it, or is that a no-no?
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Old 31st December 2008, 03:20 AM   #8
ppia600 is offline ppia600  United States
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Cool, so you know the lunar guy? I remember seeing them in a small local audio shop years ago. Cute amps. Jol50, rewinding the asian core wouldn't be possible with the epoxy encasing everything.
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Old 31st December 2008, 03:45 AM   #9
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A friend of mine sells the lunar amps.. i have talked with guy from lunar a few times at my buddies shop cannot recall his name I been digging around for his card for and hour or so now..

removing a few wraps from the transformer i have could not be done due to the epoxy... PPIa600 is correct on this part...


one thing am wondering about and please no one take this in a bad way that i am not taking the advice given here.

but

the 97.1 is an XTR475 with a transformer that has a higher voltage output so that it can make more wattage out.. all the transistors are the same, what else do they do to the amps to produce higher power.

I started working at an audio shop (MusicPlus of Franklin) when i was young. I remember some of the older guys there sending amps to the techs at Orion and they would mod the amp to work at lower ohm loads or put out more power at its rated ohm load.

this is not something i am looking to do to this amp, i would just like to know. back then i did not know a lot about the internals of the amp just hooked them up, and no one ever told us what they did to the amps in Tempe we just knew they came back with a lot more punch.


Sam
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Old 31st December 2008, 03:47 AM   #10
ppia600 is offline ppia600  United States
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Just raising the power supply voltage will increase power output at the normal rated load, but other mods will need to be done as well. Some of the guys here can give good advice on that subject.
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