class A/B vs class D amps

[marchel]

Hi,

My local shop have a class D amp at a good price and the spec. of the amp is perfect for my needs.

Otoh, It , Being a class D, I'm worried that it might not offer the ultimate in SQ compared to a good quality class AB amp.

Do you have any experience with fullrange class D amp, Can you notice the difference in SQ between it and class AB?

In particular, this is the amp I'm talking about, A DLS AMP . A 4x100wrms class D amp.

Are DLS branded amps good?

Thanks.

 

[amc32]

Havent tried the DLS D class fullrange. I'm sure its a cookie-cutter korean based. Some Korean's do make good cookies (JL, DLS A Series)

I have used the Swiss Audio 6-channel full-range Class D amplifier. Not bad Power,before it self-destructed. Sound Q. was sub-par.

And sub-par SQ when compared to class AB,is what I hear of other manufactures. (Alpine)

Go big or go home......

 

[0ldSch00lf00l]

One of my friends has the famous Alpine PDX series in his Civic and he has the same type R woofer that I have up front. My Linear Power 1502IQ seems to give me a much better midbass response than his PDX does to the same speaker (in different vehicles).

Granted, it could be another setup issue that is causing the difference between his vehicle and my vehicle. Just based on what I heard from his PDX, I noticed immediately that something was missing and I was not impressed with its ''sound'' or lack thereof in the midbass area! I was impressed by the PDX's small size though.

OTOH, I can't tell the difference between a Class A/B amp on a subwoofer and a Class D. I've performed this experiment with my own equipment and came to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter which amp to go with on subs. May as well go with the more efficient one out of the two

 

[jol50]

I always find LP and some other old amps have better bass/midbass sound. Lots of new amps seem cold/flat. But at least today you have all kinds of EQs to change that, or so people tell me. I have a 16 band EQ and I still don't like it but now is pretty cold to be swapping amps.

I agree with subs, I always used whatever sub amp and rarely noted a sonic quality difference. Heck even at 10% distortion many people can't hear that in subs....besides you can get a huge sub amp for peanuts these days so distortion should not be an issue. I typically try to run a class D on subs over about 3-500 rms, for 12v power issues. You can get a lot of noise with a single 4ga power wire if you do class D on subs. I have an Arc full range class T but not run it yet.

 

[cbdb]

Clean sub amps are easier to build (you need 500hz BW instead of 100khz) Most consumer home subs have built in Class D power and some sound great.

 

[Eva]

State of the art full-range class-D is way better than many Chinese, Korean, etc.. car-audio amplifiers which are actually ancient class B circuits and suffer from crossover distortion.

However, the full range class-D circuits found on car-audio amplifiers may not be as good.

 

[Flyin11]

One of my friends has the famous Alpine PDX series in his Civic and he has the same type R woofer that I have up front. My Linear Power 1502IQ seems to give me a much better midbass response than his PDX does to the same speaker (in different vehicles).

Granted, it could be another setup issue that is causing the difference between his vehicle and my vehicle. Just based on what I heard from his PDX, I noticed immediately that something was missing and I was not impressed with its ''sound'' or lack thereof in the midbass area! I was impressed by the PDX's small size though.

Yeah, the thing I noticed about those PDX amps when I was looking at them was that they didn't have any bass boost controls...or atleast the 600.1 didn't. So, you couldn't add some bass to the sound which was something that I pretty much needed so I passed on it (Not to mention the price was a factor as well..LOL). That could be where he was missing some of his mid bass sound from though...

The Class D amps run a lot cooler and draw less amperage than your typical A/B amp. A lot of people gave me advice of this board on this So, you could run more wattage and power to your subs and it wouldn't put hardly as much drain on your electrical system and you get the same effect. A/B amps have good sound but I think the only way to get the best of both worlds is if you got a Class BD amplifier which combines the sound of a A/B amp and the efficiency of a class D. They are very expensive though form what I have seen Class D amps are usually the way to go though

 

[marchel]

I understand that most midpriced and lowpriced amps are made in Taiwan , Korea and China, But Arent they designed by the Original brands like Jbl, Dls, infinity and so on, I've seen their internals in Ampguts website LINK , And most of them uses metal foil resistors, some uses expensive sealed/solid caps, and all branded amps uses transistors from reputable makers. Isnt the circuit design more important in building class D amps than, whether whos hands and what country that built them, regarding SQ?

Thanks.

 

[djQUAN]

I remember back then when I switched from a mono P68 driving two 12" JBL's in sealed boxes to a 41Hz amp2. the bass went a little loose. right now I have a kicker mono amp driving two DD 8's in a ported box and the bass is quite good. pretty much the tightness of my old 12's but with much more bottom end.

 

[Eva]

I understand that most midpriced and lowpriced amps are made in Taiwan , Korea and China, But Arent they designed by the Original brands like Jbl, Dls, infinity and so on, I've seen their internals in Ampguts website LINK , And most of them uses metal foil resistors, some uses expensive sealed/solid caps, and all branded amps uses transistors from reputable makers. Isnt the circuit design more important in building class D amps than, whether whos hands and what country that built them, regarding SQ?

Thanks.

No, most amplifiers are designed by the companies who manufacture them. The "original" brand only picks the heatsink profile, colours, etc... If you look carefully, you will find that amplifiers from different brands have very similar internals (because they were designed and built by the same company).

Full range class-D technology is usually bought from well-known third-party companies too who have developed specific solutions, but this is always better than allowing inexperienced people to design it.

I did my own 2x150W implementation of UcD powered from 12V. See the following thread, it contains several pictures of the design and prototype (pictures start at page 2):

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111566&highlight=

Some of these amplifiers are installed in motorbikes with weak electrical systems and very limited space, and in terms of size and loudness/power consumption they outperform almost any car audio product in the market. Sound has no apparent flaws.

 

[PQatPIT]

I'm sure its a cookie-cutter korean based. Some Korean's do make good cookies (JL, DLS A Series)

DLS A series are made not in Korea but in Taiwan, and they are good.

Model A2 provides very good midrange sound quality for the price. I have done a couple of competition level installs (EMMA Europe) with them and bang for the buck is very good.

 

[jol50]

I have found that to be an issue in sub amps; the 'looseness' or whatever you call it. It could be the response of the amp in that some have built in subsonic filters or similar, and some might have more headroom and be more dynamic. Certainly have swapped amps for this reason, especially with IB subs you are punishing. A dynamic amp will bottom them out at a lower output. Could also just be their 'sound' is boosted at sub frequencies. But I've never heard an issue with distortion in a sub amp excepting when it plain ran out of power. Most of the differences are just the response of the amp, some amps have more bass/sub bass/mid/etc and can cause the sub to sound different. Full range does the same though newer amps seem to be more flat, at least the ones I have tried. The other day I put a LP on a sub just to test it, huge difference on sound to the many newer amps I have tested on the same sub full range....that really shows bass to mid response. LP was much 'warmer' like a tube amp.

 

[amc32]

Concerning DLS,I've been a fan of theirs for some time.I live in Fla. and have had the privilege to what the have to offer in the U.S. since their main Distrubution/Warehouse is in Fla.(PennY) That being said!DLS is a sucessfull Semi-High-End Company based on modern economic conditions.

#1 Their Amplifiers are over-sea desighns based on Genisis (UK) engineering. Not so long-ago they had a symbionic relationship that went sour.

#2 Their Higher-End Full-Range speakers.Are great sounding compared to what is readily marketed....But DLS are no match compared to the borrowed technology they got it from (Dynaudio,Morel).And its not coincidently that the Isreali company Morel allowed this to happen.And that DLS major officals are Isreali also.But to stay ahead of the wave of over-sea's sub-par merchandise. Sub-contract out second's to a invested company(DLS).Morel learnt a lesson from their relationship with Phoniex Gold and Renissance. "We are the ****,buy the real or get the sloppy seconds"


By the way,I'm next in line.....

 

[PQatPIT]

Uhh, didn't know they were from Israel. I thought they were real Swedish guys and nothing else. Been talking to David and Leif few times when on EMMA Finals throughout the years.

I still have one DLS Genesis amp, DA100. Good sound quality and decent power, made about '95 or so.

When they introduced A-series in 2000 (?, can't be sure now) I was also curious to see what was inside. After I opened one I could see that real designer and mind behind A-series is somewhere else than UK. That time this Genesis connection was already behind. Now I also know that this factory produces high quality gear for other sound quality oriented companies around the world. I can see that only the basic idea to have a SQ line of amps is the same as Genesis has and always have had.

I have heard some Morel installs but so far none have been up to DLS installs SQ-wise. Genesis has also some very good speakers in their product line. I have heard a couple of installs and they have been very good.

 

[buggsson]

I'm sure its a cookie-cutter korean based. Some Korean's do make good cookies (JL, DLS A Series)

I don't know where you got that idea from. It is a swedish company which goes back to 1979. They are quite successful on the competition scene over here as can be seen in the latest results from the european EMMA scene.

And really, I cannot understand the slandering of all products made in asia going on on many forums. It has nothing to do with where the product is built, it is how you do it and the parts you use. It's a reality we all will have to deal with.

 

[amc32]

Yes DLS is a Sweedish based company.And Here in the US,we also have US based companies.(Orion,PPI.ADS,Boston Acoustics,US AMPS,ect,ect......_____________ fill in the blank.If you feel me.But lets call it what it is.Market controls demand. Here in the US market made in the US or UK or Sweeden doesnt mean much.Now to audiophiles maybe that something different.

Again personally I like DLS,but it is what it is.A sucessful company that has changed to meet the demands of the ecomonic market (Customers-vs-Cost).

#1 Amps are Asian
#2 Speakers are Asian desighns based on Isreali (Morel) engineering.
#3 Not trying to bash Asian manufacturing just trying to remove the smog of marketing.I love my Ipod(Apple),X-Box(Microsoft)


Your right Morel Midranges can be sluggish!Been there done that!


Its called reverse engernering,and its ok. Have you seen the new Hyndai's they look just like Jaguar's.....Sorry Europeans,but its true.


Here's a short list of other US companies and I'm positive other countries have similar "Home-Made Companies" wink,wink.
"Talk amoungst yourselves",church-lady Saturday-Nite Live.

AudioBahn,SwissAudio,PhaseLinear,PowerAcoustic,Jensen,KLH,Massive
American Bass,Hifonics,EFX, ok point made,I hope.

Ok Grasshopper,what are you tring to say?
Be an informed consumer,and not a brand name slave

 

[amc32]

As a side note: take a look at the similarites between Genesis(UK based)& PowerAmper(Asian based). Note Genesis gradual changes from its initial designs to later production. Now look at this up and coming PowerAmper (Also based in Florida for distribution and warehousing,before they went back over seas).See anything familiar?Now if I were a consumer and I was head-over heals in love with Genesis I would also check out PowerAmper.

Car Audio can be a drug, buy from the right dealer!

 

[amc32]

Amp-Guts@Realm of Excursion

 

[ppia600]

You never hear about earthquake, even with all of their american made equipment. Weird...

 

[amc32]

.......Earthquake(California) and MMats(Florida) not 100% American made....
But they do carry some good product in their lines....