Distance from amp s important?

mitchyz250f · 24th June 2008, 12:34 PM

Anyone notice a difference is sound when placing an amp closer or further to a sub as long as wire size is sufficient, lets say 12 gauge? The reason I ask is that amp dampening is hugely effected by the distance from sub to amp, regardless of wire size (almost), but I have also read that amp dampening is really a non factor. The amp is an Orion GX280 and the dampening factor is 2000+

ppia600 · 24th June 2008, 03:04 PM

If you use thick enough sub wire, you won't have to worry about the distance. Using too thin of a wire will affect the amp's ability to control the woofer

mitchyz250f · 24th June 2008, 04:51 PM

So lets say 12 gauge wire running from under the front seat to the furthest point in the trunk.

Iain McNeill · 24th June 2008, 05:55 PM

12gauge resistivity = 1.6mohms/ft.

if your front seat to trunk is 20ft (tortuous path) then you have 64milliohms of cable resistance (40 * 0.0016)

Orion doesn't have a GX280 on their website so guess the output impedance at say 50milliohms.

You can see that the damping factor is defined pretty much equally by the amplifier Zout and the cable impedance.

Assume speaker is 4 ohms (car speaker?) then DF = 35. (Zspeaker/Zsource)

How did you get 2000?

Personally, unless you have a crossover between the amp and speaker I don't think you need to worry about damping factor.

tsmith1315 · 24th June 2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

How did you get 2000?

That's what Orion advertised for the GX amps. Model # 280GX.

Current hungry amps, but would absolutely deliver the output if you could feed them what they wanted.

Iain McNeill · 25th June 2008, 04:27 AM

Sounds like my kind of amp

DF of 2K means a source impedance of less than 2milliohms. You have to worry about your power source at that point.

I can't find the Orion 280GX on the Orion site. Is it discontinued? Can you post a link? I wonder if the 2K damping factor is realistic/achievable.

mitchyz250f · 25th June 2008, 04:57 AM

I believe they stopped making the amp in the early 90's.

The amp wll be electronically crossed. Will there be a sonic difference between mounting between the amp 8 feet or 1 foot from the sub using 12 gauge wire?

Iain McNeill · 25th June 2008, 05:14 AM

I would say that the length of cable between amp and speakers and amp and battery/PSU are equally important in this case.

If the connection from the amp to the battery is 15feet of 14 gauge, then no, 8' will sound the same as 1' of 12gauge to the speakers. If the amp to battery is 1foot of 10gauge then yes, you may hear a difference on some, especially challenging, musical passages at higher volume levels.

Sounds like your amplifier is VERY low output impedance. That makes ALL the wiring important in the installation. The wiring needs to be <<2milliohms!

Check the esr of your filter caps!

Iain McNeill · 25th June 2008, 05:21 AM

actually, I don't think it's such a bad idea to have your source impedance defined by a resistor (the wires) - better than the frequency dependent feedback loop! IMO source impedance under 50milliohms is adequate for most direct connected speakers.

mitchyz250f · 25th June 2008, 05:36 AM

I will be using 4 gauge from the battery to the amp and 12 gauge to the speaker.

It sounded like you are saying that having the 5-8 ft of 12 gauge to the speaker would be a good thing, is this correct?

24th June 2008, 12:34 PM	#1
mitchyz250f diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ga	Distance from amp s important? Anyone notice a difference is sound when placing an amp closer or further to a sub as long as wire size is sufficient, lets say 12 gauge? The reason I ask is that amp dampening is hugely effected by the distance from sub to amp, regardless of wire size (almost), but I have also read that amp dampening is really a non factor. The amp is an Orion GX280 and the dampening factor is 2000+

24th June 2008, 03:04 PM	#2
ppia600 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Louis y ana	If you use thick enough sub wire, you won't have to worry about the distance. Using too thin of a wire will affect the amp's ability to control the woofer __________________ Don't worry... you can always turn the gain down!

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24th June 2008, 04:51 PM	#3
mitchyz250f diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ga	So lets say 12 gauge wire running from under the front seat to the furthest point in the trunk.

24th June 2008, 05:55 PM	#4
Iain McNeill diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Santa Cruz, California	12gauge resistivity = 1.6mohms/ft. if your front seat to trunk is 20ft (tortuous path) then you have 64milliohms of cable resistance (40 * 0.0016) Orion doesn't have a GX280 on their website so guess the output impedance at say 50milliohms. You can see that the damping factor is defined pretty much equally by the amplifier Zout and the cable impedance. Assume speaker is 4 ohms (car speaker?) then DF = 35. (Zspeaker/Zsource) How did you get 2000? Personally, unless you have a crossover between the amp and speaker I don't think you need to worry about damping factor.

25th June 2008, 04:27 AM	#6
Iain McNeill diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Santa Cruz, California	Sounds like my kind of amp DF of 2K means a source impedance of less than 2milliohms. You have to worry about your power source at that point. I can't find the Orion 280GX on the Orion site. Is it discontinued? Can you post a link? I wonder if the 2K damping factor is realistic/achievable.

25th June 2008, 04:57 AM	#7
mitchyz250f diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ga	I believe they stopped making the amp in the early 90's. The amp wll be electronically crossed. Will there be a sonic difference between mounting between the amp 8 feet or 1 foot from the sub using 12 gauge wire?

25th June 2008, 05:14 AM	#8
Iain McNeill diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Santa Cruz, California	I would say that the length of cable between amp and speakers and amp and battery/PSU are equally important in this case. If the connection from the amp to the battery is 15feet of 14 gauge, then no, 8' will sound the same as 1' of 12gauge to the speakers. If the amp to battery is 1foot of 10gauge then yes, you may hear a difference on some, especially challenging, musical passages at higher volume levels. Sounds like your amplifier is VERY low output impedance. That makes ALL the wiring important in the installation. The wiring needs to be <<2milliohms! Check the esr of your filter caps!

25th June 2008, 05:21 AM	#9
Iain McNeill diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Santa Cruz, California	actually, I don't think it's such a bad idea to have your source impedance defined by a resistor (the wires) - better than the frequency dependent feedback loop! IMO source impedance under 50milliohms is adequate for most direct connected speakers.

25th June 2008, 05:36 AM	#10
mitchyz250f diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ga	I will be using 4 gauge from the battery to the amp and 12 gauge to the speaker. It sounded like you are saying that having the 5-8 ft of 12 gauge to the speaker would be a good thing, is this correct?

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