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Old 7th May 2008, 05:15 AM   #1
phrarod is offline phrarod  United States
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Default Peerless or Morel mid?

I'm replacing a pair of Vifa P13/14 (can't remember but they're the 5") I think after 12 years they've had it.

Its going into a MGB. I soundproofed the car and the doors and in the past had the stereo sounding great even with all the wind noise. I'd like to get back to that.

I'm looking at either the Peerless 85017 http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=685

Or the Morel MW144 http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=604

Obviously the Morels are twice the price. I put a pair of Peerless mids in my wife's MINI and was very impressed with their sound. I want to get the best out of my situation and wondered if the added expense of the Morel is worth it or I could only hear the difference in a quiet cabin.

TIA!
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Old 7th May 2008, 03:40 PM   #2
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Cool car, loads of fun. What year is it?

And which Peerless did you put into the Mini? IIRC, at one point you were looking for a suitable amplifier for it. Did you ever make a choice?

I started using the ďinexpensiveĒ European drivers 20 years ago, and have been consistently impressed with them. With the exception of a pair of Alphasonik D6200 plates, thatís all Iíve used in my own car since.

Either speaker could work well for you, but I think the Morels would have a distinct advantage in power handling and low end response. Theyíre less efficient to start with so theyíd need more power than the Peerless, but with the 3Ē voice coil they can handle the power it will require to get over the wind.

In addition, the Morelsí response is well suited for IB, being almost critically damped by the suspension itself. They would be a little under 5dB down at 55Hz in IB. In contrast the Peerless would be 5dB down around 95Hz in IB.

Itís not a big deal, but be aware that the MW144 uses a stamped steel frame with a rolled flange that may need a gasket underneath. You can see it in the photo.

Again, either speaker is capable of providing very good performance. Iíve looked at the 4Ē and 5Ē Peerless CSC-Xís many times and wishes I had a need for them because they offer such promising performance for the price.

The Peerless would offer very similar sound and performance to your old Vifas. When they were new, that is.

Iím really surprised there arenít more roll-your-own separates threads in this group. Itís entirely possible to put together some excellent car sounding speaker systems for relatively little money if youíre willing to do the research.
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Old 7th May 2008, 04:18 PM   #3
phrarod is offline phrarod  United States
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"Iím really surprised there arenít more roll-your-own separates threads in this group. Itís entirely possible to put together some excellent car sounding speaker systems for relatively little money if youíre willing to do the research."

I agree completely! I'm just amazed at the combo of the Peerless 830513/832513 6.5" and Seas 27TFFNC/G (H1396) 1" textile dome tweeter for a total of $150 the MINI sounds amazing even though I haven't changed out the rear 6x9 (haven't found what I like) or added an amp.

On the amp since the speakers sound so natural I just decided to find something that will fit behind the rear panel where they put the factory one. So either a Alpine PDX or the new JBL pint size amp I saw at CES.

Right now in the MG (1971 MGB) I have a pair of Assassins on the rear firewall firing forward and a Soundstream MC275 which is bridged for the front pairs which use a passive x-over.

I really gotta convince myself the Morels will be a huge set up from the Peerless. You provided good info. The Peerless while having a smaller magnet are a little deeper but have a higher Q if that matters. Shallow is better obviously in this app.
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Old 7th May 2008, 08:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Right now in the MG (1971 MGB) I have a pair of Assassins on the rear firewall firing forward and a Soundstream MC275 which is bridged for the front pairs which use a passive x-over
A real MGB, excellent! Do you still have chrome bumpers and wire wheels??? You can't peel it off the road with a spatula, even on stock tires!

Quote:
Peerless while having a smaller magnet are a little deeper but have a higher Q if that matters
I read Qts's of 0.41 for the Peerless and 0.55 for the Morel. The Morel's magnet is inside the voice coil, so it's misleading to compare magnet sizes visually.

Sound like you have plenty of power... OK, OK, I'll hush and leave you alone to grapple with decisions.

Good luck!
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:58 PM   #5
phrarod is offline phrarod  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tsmith1315


A real MGB, excellent! Do you still have chrome bumpers and wire wheels??? You can't peel it off the road with a spatula, even on stock tires!



I read Qts's of 0.41 for the Peerless and 0.55 for the Morel. The Morel's magnet is inside the voice coil, so it's misleading to compare magnet sizes visually.

Sound like you have plenty of power... OK, OK, I'll hush and leave you alone to grapple with decisions.

Good luck!
Oh yes, Its always had chrome wires and nice Perellis although now they don't make them for the car and I have some others that stick pretty well.

So what driver would you select?javascript:smilie('')


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Old 7th May 2008, 11:25 PM   #6
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I'd spring for the MW144's, and feel guilty about it later!

The sound will not be quite as lively as the vifas, but very accurate and you almost can't overpower them (except for exceeding xmax).

A passive crossover will need to be specialized for this driver, and voice coil inductance is significant. Adding a zobel to flatten that is just a simple R-C in parallel and is worthwhile. Be sure to pad the tweeters, as they'll likely be more efficient than the MW's.

Again, this is only my strongly biased opinion.
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Old 7th May 2008, 11:32 PM   #7
phrarod is offline phrarod  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tsmith1315
I'd spring for the MW144's, and feel guilty about it later!

The sound will not be quite as lively as the vifas, but very accurate and you almost can't overpower them (except for exceeding xmax).

A passive crossover will need to be specialized for this driver, and voice coil inductance is significant. Adding a zobel to flatten that is just a simple R-C in parallel and is worthwhile. Be sure to pad the tweeters, as they'll likely be more efficient than the MW's.

Again, this is only my strongly biased opinion.
But Tim! I want everything. Accuracy, lively, everything! javascript:smilie('') There is a passive network with coils and caps but it was built so long ago I don't remember the specs. Actually I was going to run the mid open as I did with the Peerless on Madisounds rec'. It works perfectly. Then I would just put a 10uF cap on the tweets to protect them.

Bad idea?
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Old 9th May 2008, 03:34 PM   #8
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Actually I was going to run the mid open as I did with the Peerless on Madisounds rec'. It works perfectly. Then I would just put a 10uF cap on the tweets to protect them.

Bad idea?
Most of us want EVERYTHING, or we wouldn't be in this forum!

Not a bad idea at all, especially when the mid and tweeter aren't close together. The Morel has a fairly clean HF response as it rolls off, and is a great candidate for this operating mode. (Some woofers have resonance/phase issues that need to be hushed.)

I'd still add a Zobel on the woofer to flatten the impedance rise. It's just an cap in series with a resistor wired in parallel with the woofer -cheap, easy and can do nothing but help IMHO.
I come up with 11.8uF and 6.5 ohms for the MW144 zobel, Madisound or Morel may have suggestions of their own.

What are you using for tweeters?
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Old 9th May 2008, 03:48 PM   #9
phrarod is offline phrarod  United States
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ok. I'll make the Zobel. I build home tube audio and know caps can make a huge difference. I'd have to get some good polypropylenes and carbon comp resistor.

I was going to use this tweeter with a 10uF cap on it like I did for the mini. It seems to be their rec' aside from a LP that has a metal dome and I don't like metal domes.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1466
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Old 9th May 2008, 08:54 PM   #10
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So you really are happy with your results in the Mini, or you wouldn't be using that SEAS again, huh?

Nice tweeter, chances are good I'll be using the 25mm square flange on my next project.

Got any tube project pics?

Component selection's not critical with the Zobel, as they aren't directly in the signal path. Your philosophy will make your selection. I usually use decent quality inexpensive parts like the ones in this 6" Audax LP filter:
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