why are old school amps worth so much? - Page 4 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Car Audio

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th February 2008, 07:20 PM   #31
jol50 is offline jol50  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
MC440 - 280198566846 519+27
How much are they new anyway?
Some things I don't get, I mean how hard would it be to make an old amp some are fairly simple....aside from copyrights or whatever. Has to be a reason they don't, maybe same reason LP is out of biz because nobody bought them. I have seen Asian amps with lots of good components though, it could be done that way.

I like the 8002 LP a guy keeps putting on there for $800 I think it was. 250214353550 Wow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2008, 08:01 PM   #32
jpruden is offline jpruden  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
garage1217: I didn't get your comment. Was that directed to me? The McIntosh MC440 is a 6 channel car power amp.

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/McIntosh_MC440/

When the amp was new, it was $1300. I got mine used for $450 a few years back in perfect condition with the original manuals and birth certificate. I saw one go on eBay last year for something like $800... the previous owner had returned the machine to McIntosh for a recertification and the unit was like new. I'd put my amp up against $800 worth of new amps for SQ any day... the noise floor on the amp is probably worth $500 on its own.

I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to copy the circuit... I've got the schematics for an ADS PQ20 somewhere in my piles of stuff, but I wouldn't know where to start to source the parts, the PC board, and a decent heat sink. Of course, some of you could.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2008, 08:16 PM   #33
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern California
You should post the schematic since ADS no longer exists I am sure folks here would truly appreciate having that scheme available. If you have a MC-440 diagram I could use it to repair my MC-431 I own and my MC-4000 I have tucked away at home..I can't see shipping my amps back East when I am qualified and have parts and a full bench to fix my own. Thanks either way...


It sure would be nice to have a Sticky here just for car amp diagrams and schematics, just thinking out loud...C
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2008, 10:46 PM   #34
ppia600 is offline ppia600  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Louis y ana
Now this isn't american old school, but it is definately old school! Pioneer amp with a power SWITCH! Imaging having to turn it on and off manually, haha.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Vinta...spagenameZWDVW
__________________
Don't worry... you can always turn the gain down!
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2008, 10:53 PM   #35
jpruden is offline jpruden  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
OHMIGOD... that's an old bridge-mode amp from about 1983. I took one of those out of my first car and installed a nice Alphasonik A-501e.

Wow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2008, 11:59 PM   #36
sdoom is offline sdoom  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Heidelberg
@ ppia600

That is def. "old school" . I guess I wasn´t born yet

My first real "amplifier" (installed into my VW beetle)

Click the image to open in full size.

and the first thing I installed in my VW beetle (damn that beatle had been built I wasn´t even living) that made some music was one of those crapy DIN sized equalizer -booster things......
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2008, 12:27 AM   #37
diyAudio Member
 
tsmith1315's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Doerun, GA
Default Nostalgia

Apologies in advance for the drivel...

Quote:
whats the oldest amp ever? What company started making amps for Car Audio?
I suppose fist fights could break out over these questions...

Car radios emerged in the late 20's or early 30's, and had an amp in order to drive a speaker.

Early aftermarket audio products were just a part of the hot rod/custom product market. Eventually, a few die-hard audio fans began to look for ways to get decent sound in their cars. Some mounted turntables!

The first stories I read/heard involving external amplifiers were of Audiomobile founder Paul Stary and Zapco founder Robert Zeff.

As I remember the myths, both of them had built their own car amps in the late 60's. Zeff's amp evolved into the System 150, while Stary's was a stepping stone that eventually led to the esoteric Audiomobile biamped system.

Rich Coe worked for Stary during the early days and went on to guide Alpine in the 80's.

Jim Fosgate began as an enthusiast building his own equipment.

Linear Power was started in the mid 70's by a Heil ESS engineer who began to build car amps for his friends. The Great Nelson Pass was also at Heil at that time, as a speaker engineer.

They all wanted more than what was available, so they developed it on their own. The energy and enthusiasm that drove these and other guys to shape the early days of car audio showed through in their products.

I remember my oldest brother adding an underdash 8-track to his Mach 1 around 1974 in the back yard. A couple of friends had come over to check it out. That was typical car audio back then, maybe along with a pair of 6x9's.

I did my first install in 1980, at fourteen. A little underdash 7-band EQ/power booster installation at the shop where my brother was working. CB's were a big part of the business then. Car audio was mostly cassette decks and speakers, equalizers usually had a BTL amp integrated. Separate amplifiers existed, but were rarely seen.

Anyone remember the Clarion EQB's? AFS Kricket speakers? Jensen Triax? Pioneer TSX-4?

(Slowly getting around to the orginal question)

Within 3 or 4 years, real amplifiers were the thing to have if you could afford one. They were on display at every shop, and if you didn't buy one, you wanted one by the time you left. Crazy people had more than one. Most people were still buying a cassette deck and four speakers as standard equipment, EQ/boosters were still viable upgrades to that, and the cool guys got an amp. Really cool guys saved up for two amps. A Triamp system with a subwoofer or two was worthy of "Installation News" magazine.

It was tremendous fun watching things unfold back then. Everyone was experimenting with woofers, preamp equalizers, active crossovers. We used to make 8" and 10" coaxials by mounting a dome tweeter in Becker or Pyle Driver woofer grill.

As the experiments grew and installers learned just how much better they could make a system sound, amplifiers really began to be judged critically. You could pull a Sherwood amp out and replace it with a HiFonics half the size and instantly hear why the HiFonics was 3x more expensive. Some customers just hung around all the time to see what we were going to do next.

We ALL wanted the best of the best. Few could afford it, even at dealer cost. We bought, sold, traded, moonlighted at home trying to get the stuff we wanted.
As new amps came out, we wanted them, too. In 1984 I wanted an Alphasonik A-265. In 1985, I wanted a Proton 250. In 1986, I went to work for another dealer and wanted a Zapco 200A, and a PPI 2075M. In 1989, I wanted a Soundstream MC500 and a "Class A" 50. In 1991, I wanted a Hifonics Aphrodite and an Alpine 3558.

I'd still like to have all of them, and now I can now buy them and just look at them until I have a use for them.

In addition, most all companies made some dogs. I know the old dogs, but not the new ones. Why risk wasting money when I know the old products that work?

Tim
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2008, 12:33 AM   #38
JHelms is offline JHelms  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally posted by jpruden
garage1217: I didn't get your comment. Was that directed to me? The McIntosh MC440 is a 6 channel car power amp.

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/McIntosh_MC440/

When the amp was new, it was $1300. I got mine used for $450 a few years back in perfect condition with the original manuals and birth certificate. I saw one go on eBay last year for something like $800... the previous owner had returned the machine to McIntosh for a recertification and the unit was like new. I'd put my amp up against $800 worth of new amps for SQ any day... the noise floor on the amp is probably worth $500 on its own.

I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to copy the circuit... I've got the schematics for an ADS PQ20 somewhere in my piles of stuff, but I wouldn't know where to start to source the parts, the PC board, and a decent heat sink. Of course, some of you could.



My Apologies, I had a brain fart and guess I did not read the model number correctly for some reason (stupid words haha). I know that amp well as I had an mc4000m at the time. Darn fine amplifier designed by clarion If I remember correctly. I know McIntosh lovers hate to hear that. But very good amps non the less. The mc4000m and even the 440 are car audio legends and probably always will be. Sure wish I still had mine as it scored major eye candy & brand name points, heck it does even to this day.

As for todays amps, I personally feel DLS is building the best in the business with no exception for sound quality, reliability and brute power. I am also a class a/b fan for car audio, never cared for class d amps really. The DLS a6 really delivers all the power I could need. [/endrant]
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2008, 03:10 AM   #39
Clipped is offline Clipped  Thailand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: home
Send a message via MSN to Clipped
my first real system was a punch 45 and a pyramid 100 watt amp with the heatsink sticking out the sides.

had the pyramid running 4-15's, and the punch 45 running a pair of 6x9's....of course, because the wattage 'was less'.

went to a thunder on wheels show down in houston, went home and switched the amps around ...and was like

i think old school stuff is worth more because theres alot of distrust among unknown brands... go with what you know.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2008, 09:07 PM   #40
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
I would have to say my reasoning for paying more is for an 80's amp is ...
FIRST
Simplicity-The easement of repair. I was an audio tech for years. Recently a friend of mine brought me a Hifonics Hercules (yr 2000 or so) amp to repair. There was no way to repair it. Everything is mounted in a way that makes is disposable. Everything on the board is machine assembled, and very difficult to rebuild. I like knowing that if I burn one of my amps, I will be able to repair it.

Second
Collectability - I collect car audio, lots of it. One reason it keeps going up in price is that everyone wants what worked for them back in high school. Or what sounded good in their friends car back in high school, but they couldn't afford it back then. Now they can.

THIRD
Rarity-Sometimes these amps/tuners/eq's come up in auction, and you never know if there will be another one. Some of this stuff is just really rare. I have alot of pieces that are impossible to find. So you bid on it like a madman. Can't exactly order one. How many times will a Fosgate PR-7000 amp, Fosgate Power 360, or a Zapco 151, ect, ect. come up for sale? ... You just can't order one online. Chances are if you see one, someone else sees it too. Get ready to spend some bucks. Get it now, because you never know if you will get another chance.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old school Hifonics amps ? Robcrx Car Audio 9 14th October 2012 01:26 AM
old school GS Designs C1000, C2000, C4000 Amps preston269 Car Audio 5 29th March 2008 06:55 PM
High voltage wrecked my old school amps Datsun510 Car Audio 10 19th February 2006 05:50 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2