+1 (I now have 2 of these and I have not even benched them yet....they may not work!)
I don’t know if this has been mentioned but now that I am in my 30's I can afford the amps I only wished to own when I was in HS. Not only are they less expensive then they were back in the day, but I make enough coin to waste on stupid s*#t.
Quality amps will always be quality. McIntosh home amps are a good example.....look at the price of a MC-225 or 245 made in the 60's cost....crazy. The price of the high end old school amps will always reflect the quality. I would not be surprised to see a mint D200 series I end up selling for what it retailed for (or more) in a few years.
The reason I buy Orion is because I couldn't afford it back in the day and they are relatively easy to work on, no SMD. I only buy the old HCCA models.
I have:
1 - 250 HCCA Digital Reference
3 - 225 HCCA Digital Reference
1 - 425 HCCA first generation
1 - 275 SX
2 - 275 XTR pop top
Most of these I bought broken so they were pretty cheap, but on ebay the bigger Orions still go for a couple hundred dollars in working condition. It's a combination of build quality and nostalgia for me.
ppia600, still have the 2252hx for sale? email me: gherrera1 AT netzero DOT com
I have:
1 - 250 HCCA Digital Reference
3 - 225 HCCA Digital Reference
1 - 425 HCCA first generation
1 - 275 SX
2 - 275 XTR pop top
Most of these I bought broken so they were pretty cheap, but on ebay the bigger Orions still go for a couple hundred dollars in working condition. It's a combination of build quality and nostalgia for me.
ppia600, still have the 2252hx for sale? email me: gherrera1 AT netzero DOT com
Mr Old School:
Absolutely.
As with many products, the heatsink, case, terminals, connectors, knobs, etc., are actually more expensive than the parts inside.
The way to reduce these costs is to increase purchase quantity, or reduce quality. Or both.
tomtomjr:
Believe what he say's folks, he's outbid me on old Zapco's more than once!
The 151 is a good example for this thread. They cost what, $700 new in 1986? As a reference, a new Mustang GT was only about $14k loaded.
SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS for a 75wx2 amplifier that's not even rated for 2 ohm operation???
This is no high current cheater amp, you get 150 watts, and that's it. What you get is quality, and a product that is good enough to never need another. If I could have one and only one car amp for all eternity, it would be a 151A. Fortunately, I have 3. I'll wager tomtomjr has more!
Tim
Absolutely.
As with many products, the heatsink, case, terminals, connectors, knobs, etc., are actually more expensive than the parts inside.
The way to reduce these costs is to increase purchase quantity, or reduce quality. Or both.
tomtomjr:
Believe what he say's folks, he's outbid me on old Zapco's more than once!
The 151 is a good example for this thread. They cost what, $700 new in 1986? As a reference, a new Mustang GT was only about $14k loaded.
SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS for a 75wx2 amplifier that's not even rated for 2 ohm operation???
This is no high current cheater amp, you get 150 watts, and that's it. What you get is quality, and a product that is good enough to never need another. If I could have one and only one car amp for all eternity, it would be a 151A. Fortunately, I have 3. I'll wager tomtomjr has more!
Tim
My favorite amp also. The 151A. Good choice Tim. You can spend a fortune on collecting these. I like the early Fosgate too. I would rather spend my money on the old stuff like this, rather than on the newer stuff. They just don't make car amps like this anymore. Easy to fix, very collectable, and rare. Plus they sound better than most amps out there.
tomtomjr displayed about 17 old Zapco's...
I think I'm going to cry.
What's the Fosgate to the left of the 650, is that another 650 without the shroud? The only old RF I have left is an AF/2 still in the wrapper.
OK 1moreamp, how about a pic of some of your stash???
jol50:
And now a similar car would be what, twice that? Are there any 75Wx2 amps out there now for $1400? The good stuff was EXPENSIVE, and we couldn't afford it as youngsters.
But we're happy to buy it now!
Tim
I think I'm going to cry.
What's the Fosgate to the left of the 650, is that another 650 without the shroud? The only old RF I have left is an AF/2 still in the wrapper.
OK 1moreamp, how about a pic of some of your stash???
jol50:
And now a similar car would be what, twice that? Are there any 75Wx2 amps out there now for $1400? The good stuff was EXPENSIVE, and we couldn't afford it as youngsters.
But we're happy to buy it now!
Tim
Ha ha, 320 and reserve not met. They must not be as coveted.jol50 said:
I didn't buy the Mustang, unfortunately I bought a grand am with the quad4 thinking it would take less gas. It was close to half of list 1.5 yr old, it listed at 14K. Suspension sucked (mustang was worse though) and quad4 ran great but ate head gaskets and other things regularly (over 2K in warranty before it ran out). Later I got a 5.0 LX and it got 20-24 compared to grand am's 23-25 driving same highway to work/etc...except it would get sideways in 5th gear at 45mph in the rain.
Never fixed anything on the Mustang outside of normal wear. GA would get up to 31 all highway though, Stang about 25.Man amps were expensive back then. Money was worth more, I could buy a beater car for less than a good amp. I had plenty of winter cars that were worth less than what I paid for the USED components (maybe new speakers) of the system I had in them and that was just usually two amps, xover, HU, two 10s, 4 coax highs maybe comps in front.
I don't see why not as they are around 14yrs old now...
I have 2 Alpine 3554's, an Alpine 3544 and an Alpine 3552.
I also have a Rockford Fosgate Punch 40ix and a Punch 60 ix.
All of which are in perfect working order which is good for around 14 yrs old for the Rockfords and 16 yrs old for the Alpines...
That is why I like the old school amps, plus they are black, amps should be a plain black box imho....
I have 2 Alpine 3554's, an Alpine 3544 and an Alpine 3552.
I also have a Rockford Fosgate Punch 40ix and a Punch 60 ix.
All of which are in perfect working order which is good for around 14 yrs old for the Rockfords and 16 yrs old for the Alpines...
That is why I like the old school amps, plus they are black, amps should be a plain black box imho....
Did anyone bid on this PH30.2? 190198251880 At least it was in nice condition still in the box.
I have been looking at some amps that barely make the preferred old amp list and they have been going high lately. I find no reason to pay more for them really; even if a newer amp fails badly I have 6 more to replace it and likely it has more power to stay clean since it is rated near double the power. I think some people are collecting, especially now because things are slow on ebay and it only takes two to get a price up. Some are the same people bidding on every one of a brand. It must be slow because I've seen two newer good brand amps I bought last fall that went for more lately broken than the ones I bought working. So I'm selling a few things.
I have been looking at some amps that barely make the preferred old amp list and they have been going high lately. I find no reason to pay more for them really; even if a newer amp fails badly I have 6 more to replace it and likely it has more power to stay clean since it is rated near double the power. I think some people are collecting, especially now because things are slow on ebay and it only takes two to get a price up. Some are the same people bidding on every one of a brand. It must be slow because I've seen two newer good brand amps I bought last fall that went for more lately broken than the ones I bought working. So I'm selling a few things.
I wonder if that is why ebay is losing users. I can't count the times I have tried to buy something near the going price of past auctions and I just can't buy it. Even bid up 50% higher someone snipes it. How many people just give up and go away, I have with lots of things. Not sure if people bid their own stuff or if some bored lotto winner is bidding, but I just want to buy at fair price and with a lot of items you can't. I see broken stuff bid higher than I find it new elsewhere, something is not right that is not a normal price fluctuation. Sometimes you do see it come back on so you know it was the seller or deadbeat bidders. Now they want to stop rating buyers??? I can't wait to see what that does, it may take you 2 months to sell something. Of course, wonder how much of that shows in pricing of some amps. I've found stuff local way cheaper at times.
I got a nice Linear Power 3002 off Ebay a while back. The exterior of the amp is a little scruffy, but the internal PCB is pristine. I lusted over LP back in the 80s, but could never afford them. So, I am living now what I couldn't back then. I love the amp, it's so basic (not even a "power" LED). I drive large 4 ohm speakers with it in my home studio, with the amp connected to a big regulated DC supply. Even at full volume, the heatsink barely gets warm. It's so overbuilt, I'm guessing it will be around for many more years.
In my opinion, it's what an amp should be, and I'd be lying if it didn't remind me a little of a time when music and sound was my number one priority (with parties, beer, and "hooking up" a close second).
And that's why the old stuff is worth more to me...
In my opinion, it's what an amp should be, and I'd be lying if it didn't remind me a little of a time when music and sound was my number one priority (with parties, beer, and "hooking up" a close second).
And that's why the old stuff is worth more to me...
@ jol50 : ebay prices
That ´s the same thing over here . I wonder how stupid people are buying burned, scratched and overpainted stuff spending more money than buying the same amp in working condition. Even the cheapest korean and chinese amps go away for damn money when they are broken....
When I started fixing amplifiers my Crunch V-4004 had a blown KTD998 transistor . That was 2002. At that time I was jobless and didn´t want to spend money on a new amp. With moderate electronic skills from my former job training I found that "normal" car amps aren´t that bad to fix. So i started to buy broken amps on ebay.
That time you could get good amplifiers (like a VIII Hifonics , Altai amps , Signat Ram amps and so on ...) for less than 25USD .... I made good money but after two years people spend more money on a broken Magnat Classic360 (korean amp with aprox 4x40W) than on a working crunch amp . Ok, Crunch was then already korean made but still useable amplifiers in the beginner range.....
I think old amps just have more "blood" from the designer in it. Guess Steven Mantz had a lot of headaches designing all those amps we love - nowadays we find the same amplifier in 20 different cases/heatsinks carrying 20 different labels.... (and people spend 20 different amounts on money on that ) ....
sorry guys, think I just had too much of that Havanna - rum
That ´s the same thing over here . I wonder how stupid people are buying burned, scratched and overpainted stuff spending more money than buying the same amp in working condition. Even the cheapest korean and chinese amps go away for damn money when they are broken....
When I started fixing amplifiers my Crunch V-4004 had a blown KTD998 transistor . That was 2002. At that time I was jobless and didn´t want to spend money on a new amp. With moderate electronic skills from my former job training I found that "normal" car amps aren´t that bad to fix. So i started to buy broken amps on ebay.
That time you could get good amplifiers (like a VIII Hifonics , Altai amps , Signat Ram amps and so on ...) for less than 25USD .... I made good money but after two years people spend more money on a broken Magnat Classic360 (korean amp with aprox 4x40W) than on a working crunch amp . Ok, Crunch was then already korean made but still useable amplifiers in the beginner range.....
I think old amps just have more "blood" from the designer in it. Guess Steven Mantz had a lot of headaches designing all those amps we love - nowadays we find the same amplifier in 20 different cases/heatsinks carrying 20 different labels.... (and people spend 20 different amounts on money on that
) ....sorry guys, think I just had too much of that Havanna - rum
It runs in cycles here, depends on supply and who knows what else.
Anyone happen to know about US Amps? I happened upon their XT line of amps, fins are short but they do look kind of old school. The lugs look like lightning audio or audiobahn's, but they are black and square with lots of fins. I don't know a thing about US Amps.
Anyone happen to know about US Amps? I happened upon their XT line of amps, fins are short but they do look kind of old school. The lugs look like lightning audio or audiobahn's, but they are black and square with lots of fins. I don't know a thing about US Amps.
jol50 said:
Jol50,
US amps started in the back room of a car audio shop in FL back in the early 80's. The head engineer is ex-military engineering and they received research grants under the guise they were developing new MRI amplifiers for medical usage. When the grant run out they turned in their results and took that knowledge to the next level. The results was a very simple, very basic, VERY clean automotive amplifier that can take a massive beating. When asked once who they 'admired' among the amps of yesteryears the CEO said 'linear power' - and rightly so. Today all of the US amps lines are still American made with the exception of one. Their entry level XT series seems to be that one. It just reeks of Chinese build house and I assume they decided to go this route to compete in entry level markets. Their middle and top tier line appear to be classic build. If you have a peek inside them you will definitely know the difference. Hope that helps.
FWIW my two favorites are old linear power to-3 series, MMat's to-3 series, and ZED audio now has it's own line that is currently available (believe it or not) and is packed with ZED engineering and surprisingly affordable. If I don't build my next set of amplifiers I am definitely going with some ZED's. They are Steve Mantz best work to date and optionaly come with burr brown components, 1% parts, and a seperate SMPS just for the LV section. The price is amazing for the product you get but sadly the website managment has been a little rough and now you go into a backdoor just to get to the site.
http://www.softwork-orange.com/zed/aboutus.html
Not sure what happened to the domain, maybe some can lend Steve a hand? An amazing engineer with a true passion and one hell of a resume!
Linear power dissolved circa 04? When Dharmatronics (who took over from the Werbeck's) went under. Since then Ray from TIPS re-registered the name (although I seriously considered jumping on it when it was abandoned at the copyright office) and took over the web domain as well. Since then I refuse to own anything LP because Ray is an insert_colorful_adjective_here. He currently represents LP and it's future (if there is any) and I don't like him personally. Some people just adore him but I still have saved emails from him scolding me like a schoolboy for modifying his amps for my own customers. He claimed I was destroying the amps. This comming from a man who sells his own 'modifications' consisting of a burr brown op amp ($6.95) and a slew of cheap 85 degree caps. Not trying to slander the guy or anything, but pot - meet kettle. At least I used 105 degree parts. He reminds me of a child who thinks anything with an LP badge is <I><B>his</I></B> toy and your just borrowing it. Heaven forbid you 'customize' <B><I>his</I></B> toys and he finds out about it. Expect an email
MMATS? well.. the to-3 line is gone. We shall see how deep the rabbit hole goes. If it reaches China - i'm out. Chinese engineers see very little reward for innovation and thusly there is little innovation as a result (can't say I blame them). The day everything goes Chinese build house, expect innovation to come to a screeching halt.
My .02
- Matt
Re: Nostalgia
Paul Stary & Audiomobile almost never get mentioned. His pioneering work there led to ADS in the later 80's developing those concepts even further. John Bishop was an Audiomobile alum and went on to oversee the car audio division at ADS from ~86 on.
The Proton 250 (& 222) are interesting amplifiers. They were built by the same vendor that made ADS' first amplifier, the P100. A 250 is a P100 by any other name.
tsmith1315 said:
Paul Stary & Audiomobile almost never get mentioned. His pioneering work there led to ADS in the later 80's developing those concepts even further. John Bishop was an Audiomobile alum and went on to oversee the car audio division at ADS from ~86 on.
The Proton 250 (& 222) are interesting amplifiers. They were built by the same vendor that made ADS' first amplifier, the P100. A 250 is a P100 by any other name.
Great information, sure was a different time in audio.
Lol, so I picked the cheap line of US Amps! Oh well, I like that look but not buying a new amp anytime soon.
I still wonder about some of these people buying amps, here is another one 290207305920. Who knows what that person will get in the mail in a few days. I know its an auction, but HK ca240s are selling for more than ca260s were a month ago. Its almost funny. Maybe the price of gas has more people staying at home and....buying old amps?
Lol, so I picked the cheap line of US Amps! Oh well, I like that look but not buying a new amp anytime soon.
I still wonder about some of these people buying amps, here is another one 290207305920. Who knows what that person will get in the mail in a few days. I know its an auction, but HK ca240s are selling for more than ca260s were a month ago. Its almost funny. Maybe the price of gas has more people staying at home and....buying old amps?