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Old 28th December 2007, 10:22 PM   #11
ppia600 is offline ppia600  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonny Hotnuts
I have always felt an EQ is a band-aid for an improperly set up system.

With the good speaker choices, in the optimum locations and crossed properly and with adjusted gains the stereo should sound perfect with every eq adjustment on the deck set flat (0) & loud turned off.


I remember we would run white noise in a system with mic @ ear level to a sitting person and see what was peaking or dipping.

It was not all that hard to tweak a gain here or there and move a XO point to flatten the curve.

I must admit that we made some really nice sounding setups back in the day.....won some trophies and got the girls. And did it without an EQ.



Generally speaking, it should sound perfect before messing with the eq but that's only with white noise. Real music usually requires adjustment because of varying recording levels and that's what eq's are for. I usually set my components and amps up so that the eq that comes in the deck is enough to compensate for the changes in recordings. I don't believe in adding external eq's, they ALWAYS add some noise and distortion, and take up extra space as well. External eq's were kewl back in the day when decks sucked but nowadays they are almost always pointless IMO.
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Old 28th December 2007, 10:43 PM   #12
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I am going to chime in with my opinion, and it's only that.

To echo a bit of what Hotnuts and ppia600 said, I think it is much dependent on the system as to whether EQ is needed. I have what could be termed pretty high end speakers, old school a/d/s px335 components, combined with a Clarion HX-D10 with dual 24 bit DACs, some really nice old school amps, and a nice 10" sub in the proper enclosure. I got the bright idea I would try a parametric EQ and boy was I disappointed. My sound went from open, clean, and crisp, to dark and withdrawn like a blanket was covering the speakers and not letting the sound through. Hated it. After many, many attempts at adjusting the EQ, it came out and my beautiful sound came back.

I believe that sometimes we can convince ourselves we need something as an "upgrade", when it may not be an upgrade at all.
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Old 29th December 2007, 01:29 AM   #13
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Quote:
Originally posted by 69CamaroSS396
I am going to chime in with my opinion, and it's only that.

To echo a bit of what Hotnuts and ppia600 said, I think it is much dependent on the system as to whether EQ is needed. I have what could be termed pretty high end speakers, old school a/d/s px335 components, combined with a Clarion HX-D10 with dual 24 bit DACs, some really nice old school amps, and a nice 10" sub in the proper enclosure. I got the bright idea I would try a parametric EQ and boy was I disappointed. My sound went from open, clean, and crisp, to dark and withdrawn like a blanket was covering the speakers and not letting the sound through. Hated it. After many, many attempts at adjusting the EQ, it came out and my beautiful sound came back.

I believe that sometimes we can convince ourselves we need something as an "upgrade", when it may not be an upgrade at all.
I usually achieve the opposite result when I equalize difficult recordings (or speakers), but this requires some experience...

BTW: An equalizer set to flat should not make any difference at all, otherwise it is faulty or a very low quality device.
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Old 29th December 2007, 02:00 AM   #14
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Without going into detail I have what one would call “experience” in recording.

I can assure you that it is the full intent of the producer/ audio engineer that final mix down of any song of any format is done to sound perfect without the need of equalization.
An unchanged signal from a recording (providing it is from a decent source) is exactly the way the producer (and usually artist) intended. The equipment, speakers and experienced ears of major studios are undauntedly the best money can buy. An eq by nature changes the original recording, and can add a benefit for bad setups or poor equipment but make no mistake that if adding 5db @ 3K is needed in the song, the audio engineer would have done that in post.

Again I stand by saying that equalization of any kind is not needed….unless the recording was done in a basement by your drunk drummer who swings a hammer to pay the bills and the only good mix he knows says Quickcrete on the bag.

-JH
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Old 29th December 2007, 02:20 AM   #15
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You are by far too optimistic. We are flooded with pretty objectionable recordings. Nowadays most recordings are mixed, equalized and compressed with the sole purpose of making them sound loud on boom boxes. This is a topic that has been gently deal with in this forum.

You will find more negative feedback about recordings than positive if you take a look at the Music forum http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum...?s=&forumid=27 (sometimes it's worth the effort to get out of car audio and take a look at outer world)
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Old 29th December 2007, 02:24 AM   #16
ppia600 is offline ppia600  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eva
You are by far too optimistic. We are flooded with pretty objectionable recordings. Nowadays most recordings are mixed, equalized and compressed with the sole purpose of making them sound loud on boom boxes. This is a topic that has been gently deal with in this forum.

You will find more negative feedback about recordings than positive if you take a look at the Music forum http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum...?s=&forumid=27 (sometimes it's worth the effort to get out of car audio and take a look at outer world)

In general, I agree with these statements
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Old 29th December 2007, 03:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
You are by far too optimistic. We are flooded with pretty objectionable recordings. Nowadays most recordings are mixed, equalized and compressed with the sole purpose of making them sound loud on boom boxes. This is a topic that has been gently deal with in this forum.


This is only because you are listening to the wrong music.

J.K.


I guess I have the opinion that even if it’s a recording that is designed for “boom boxes” (although I haven’t seen an actual boom box in years) I would rather listen to it in its pure form than try and alter the recording in an attempt to make it better.


Maybe its because I am a musician and would feel personally insulted if someone felt they needed to alter my stuff.
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Old 29th December 2007, 04:31 AM   #18
jol50 is offline jol50  United States
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I can't agree that I don't need one. I want to hear it the way I want, to heck with some engineer. If I want to listen to dance music with tons of bass that shakes the car....well I will. If I want to listen to some rock with midbass punch I can feel....well I do. I listen to a lot of different types of music and have to change my EQ often. Sure my system may not be ideal at this moment, just the same the parametric I have helps my IB subs have punch and rumble at the same time they otherwise could not because they are rather difficult to tune. I have tuned most of my previous systems to not need an EQ, the HU bass and treble along with the crossover settings and gains is all I used....it was cleaner that way. Right now I have an alpine that seems pretty clean. A cheap crossover or EQ is very bad, I mean bad! I have an older 'normal' alpine HU with no processing. Really I don't use the limited EQ part it has for anything above 1kHz, my problems mostly lie in the sub stage and its integration into the midrange. I like powerful subs and as usual they are difficult to integrate without powerful midbass in front....or getting the subs to fill in for lack of midbass without being directional. Yes in the old days you swapped drivers/amps and changed install until it worked out. Today I am more into stealth installs that limit what can be done. Also I find huge differences in CDs as far as sound. When my systems are tuned in, they can play any kind of music with a slight adjustment from the driver's seat.
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Old 29th December 2007, 05:26 AM   #19
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I found myself agreeing with Eva until I read this:

Quote:
This is only because you are listening to the wrong music.
Ooh, can't argue with that.

Quote:
Maybe its because I am a musician and would feel personally insulted if someone felt they needed to alter my stuff.
Kinda like pouring ketchup on a good filet mignon, huh?

I don't have a philosophical problem with EQ's, and I'll tinker with one if it's there. But I think there's always somewhere in the system that the money could've been better spent on something else.

Most any needed EQ'ing can be more effectively addressed through patiently adjusting crossover points and gains.

jol50: What kind of old Alpine HU are you using?

Tim
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Old 29th December 2007, 05:43 AM   #20
jol50 is offline jol50  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by tsmith1315

I don't have a philosophical problem with EQ's, and I'll tinker with one if it's there. But I think there's always somewhere in the system that the money could've been better spent on something else.

Most any needed EQ'ing can be more effectively addressed through patiently adjusting crossover points and gains.

Tim
I can't stop my car to fiddle with the HU crossover or jump in the trunk to mess with amp crossovers every time it is not right. I have a nice dash mount crossover I have used a lot that is not bad, but the parametric is much more useful in the one I am using now. Really that is the nicest part is the availability of a dash mount style crossover or EQ....but I would take a crossover before an EQ if I had to choose.

I have some CDs with tons of bass so I have to turn it down, others have hardly any. Turning the HU bass up/down does not always work well.

The only ones I have used with success are linear power, alpine, nakamichi, and I hear audiocontrol are pretty good.

And if you are a musician who is worried about people EQ'ing your music....you should reconsider your priorities. Most people have never even heard a quality or calibrated music system...so they would never even know what your music is supposed to sound like would they? And don't get me started on lossy garbage compression that much music is sold as. Maybe their EQ is making your music closer to what it is supposed to be, how would you know otherwise? There is no standard of studio sound in a non-EQ'ed car stereo...much the opposite from what I have seen/heard in my lifetime.
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