Yeah...I agree on some points about not needing one but like a guy said on that forum..."I agree they can work for some applications, such as headlights, but when it comes to power amps, they don't stand a chance."
I totally agree with that. I would not be trying to use it for more power, I would be using it to,try and keep the headlights from dimming. I got one anyways and all I can say is I can just try it out. If it doesn't do anything then I won't use it. I will take it off and resell on Ebay. No harm no foul. It might work and help and it might not. My only concern is charging the dern thing up. I might take it to a car audio store to see if they can do it for me. I don't want to do it and have it blow up in my face causing injury or something. I've never used one by myself on my own. Tried it once with a car audio place but they were the ones that hooked it up and charged it and all and it didn't help back then but that was a different application and different vehicle.
I totally agree with that. I would not be trying to use it for more power, I would be using it to,try and keep the headlights from dimming. I got one anyways and all I can say is I can just try it out. If it doesn't do anything then I won't use it. I will take it off and resell on Ebay. No harm no foul. It might work and help and it might not. My only concern is charging the dern thing up. I might take it to a car audio store to see if they can do it for me. I don't want to do it and have it blow up in my face causing injury or something. I've never used one by myself on my own. Tried it once with a car audio place but they were the ones that hooked it up and charged it and all and it didn't help back then but that was a different application and different vehicle.
The only reason you need to 'charge' the cap is so that it doesn't arc and damage the nice shiny finish on the connectors. If you install the cap with the main fuse removed from the fuse holder, you can charge the cap across the fuse holder with a light bulb (like those used for a dome light) or with a resistor. Be careful with either because they're likely to get hot.
If you don't charge it and simply replace the fuse after everything is installed, it will produce a strong arc as the fuse makes contact but there is no chance of damaging the capacitor.
If you don't charge it and simply replace the fuse after everything is installed, it will produce a strong arc as the fuse makes contact but there is no chance of damaging the capacitor.
If there is no protection built into it, they can blow up if hooked up backwards (+ hooked to -). I tested amps with my 1f and just stuck the wire on the battery to energize the system (HU, amp, cap). It sparked a little, so what, but yes at the cap it will spark and make a mark on the pretty terminal if you don't want that. What works good is to use a tester with a light bulb, like the 12v type that look like a screwdriver with a sharp tip for probing wires with bulb in handle and the ground wire. Hook the stereo all up, then put that across your empty fuse block. A light bulb is same thing as a resistor, only lets a little current through. It will light until the cap is full, maybe a few seconds. Then put fuse in your done. The cap just hooks to + and - before your amp, closer the better. It does not go inline, hooks up just like an amp. Mine has a remote wire to turn on the lights also but works without it.
I have not got the cap yet, because of the holiday schedule I won't get it until Wednesday now at my work but I do have one those power testers that looks like a screwdriver with a sharp point on it. I'm going to install the new gauge wire and all tomorrow to get ready. Then all I will need to do is put the amp in and hook up all the connections which is no problem. Hardest part is getting the power wire into the car but I think I can just follow where the shop went through at.
So here's the instructions from what I gather on the cap.
I take the power wire from the battery and hook it up to the + on the cap then I take the ground wire and hook it up to the - and use the wire probe bulb thingy on the + of the cap to monitor it charging and when it goes out it's charged. I then take the cap and hook it into the wires for the amp and all and am done. Is this how you would do it? Like I said...I never had done this before...
So here's the instructions from what I gather on the cap.
I take the power wire from the battery and hook it up to the + on the cap then I take the ground wire and hook it up to the - and use the wire probe bulb thingy on the + of the cap to monitor it charging and when it goes out it's charged. I then take the cap and hook it into the wires for the amp and all and am done. Is this how you would do it? Like I said...I never had done this before...
No, you have to charge it before you connect to power. So when you hook the positive and negative wire to it; the last one you go to put on you would take the tester and connect them until light goes out...then hook the wire itself on the cap.
IMO it is easier to cut power to amps by pulling main battery fuse like I always do when rewiring them and hook it all up (cap/amps/etc)....and use the tester to connect the fuse holder at battery for main fuse I took out. When light goes out I put fuse back in good to go. If the light stays on you have a problem.
IMO it is easier to cut power to amps by pulling main battery fuse like I always do when rewiring them and hook it all up (cap/amps/etc)....and use the tester to connect the fuse holder at battery for main fuse I took out. When light goes out I put fuse back in good to go. If the light stays on you have a problem.
Just posting a update as I'm happy with what I have done so far now 
The upgrade from 8 gauge to 4 gauge wire is complete. I finished doing the power and ground last Sunday and it sounds great right now. I think it cleared up the bass sound and maybe gave it a little more power in the process. I sanded away any paint around my ground point and bolted the ground wire down and that made the bass hit harder and cleaner as well. It wasn't as easy as I thought as it was tuff getting the wire through the hole that the 8 gauge was in but once it got through it didn't take too long to get it all hooked up.
Now I'm on vacation from work all week and it's going to be quite a bit warmer temperature wise at the beginning of next week so I should be able to complete my installation being as I'm off and can work all day on it. I finally received the 4 channel amp for my highs and also have my capacitor. I have to charge the capacitor and then hook that up and the 4 channel amp is no problem to hook up and hope that will clear things up.
Also, I want my system to sound the best it can so I bought a Rockford Punch P300-1 (I'll sell my Alpine on Ebay to get some money back on it) because of it's size and power output. The size will help me put everything where I want it and out of the way better and the power might be a little less than what I have with the Alpine but I think I might have a little too much power in the Alpine so that should help clear things up a little bit. My biggest issue was with the Input signal. I want it to be good and clear which is why I bought the Kenwood HU with 5V preouts. The Alpine has a minimum input of 4V so it's converting the signal from 5V to 4V and like some of you had said and the Crutchfield Techs as well, that could lead it to clipping. Could be the reason for some distortion in the bass that I hear but we'll see. This amp is a Class AB not a Class D like my Alpine but all should still be good on everything. I know Class D's run a bit cooler but the P300-1 was the closest I could get to what I wanted power and size wise. I looked at a Kicker amp but it would be way too long and wouldn't leave me space for the cpapacitor. I didn't like the MTX TC amps cause you have no markings on the frequency ranges, gaines, or even bass boost..Just marks. I don't like not knowing where I have my adjustments. JL Audio amps didn't have the right power range I was looking for. I could have done 275 into 1 at 2ohms but after your power loss and all I would only be getting like 110watts per sub and I didn't want to have to max out the gain to get that power and cause clipping. The next amp up in their series was a 500 X 1 that I just got rid of last week but that would have been WAY too much power draw for my system as if I'm adding a 2nd amp I don't want to drain my alternator and all. So it's all coming together and I still have a lot of work to do but I should be done this week and atleast I got the power and ground done now and won't need to ever upgrade again as this is probably my last system I will do as I'm getting too old for all this
The upgrade from 8 gauge to 4 gauge wire is complete. I finished doing the power and ground last Sunday and it sounds great right now. I think it cleared up the bass sound and maybe gave it a little more power in the process. I sanded away any paint around my ground point and bolted the ground wire down and that made the bass hit harder and cleaner as well. It wasn't as easy as I thought as it was tuff getting the wire through the hole that the 8 gauge was in but once it got through it didn't take too long to get it all hooked up.
Now I'm on vacation from work all week and it's going to be quite a bit warmer temperature wise at the beginning of next week so I should be able to complete my installation being as I'm off and can work all day on it. I finally received the 4 channel amp for my highs and also have my capacitor. I have to charge the capacitor and then hook that up and the 4 channel amp is no problem to hook up and hope that will clear things up.
Also, I want my system to sound the best it can so I bought a Rockford Punch P300-1 (I'll sell my Alpine on Ebay to get some money back on it) because of it's size and power output. The size will help me put everything where I want it and out of the way better and the power might be a little less than what I have with the Alpine but I think I might have a little too much power in the Alpine so that should help clear things up a little bit. My biggest issue was with the Input signal. I want it to be good and clear which is why I bought the Kenwood HU with 5V preouts. The Alpine has a minimum input of 4V so it's converting the signal from 5V to 4V and like some of you had said and the Crutchfield Techs as well, that could lead it to clipping. Could be the reason for some distortion in the bass that I hear but we'll see. This amp is a Class AB not a Class D like my Alpine but all should still be good on everything. I know Class D's run a bit cooler but the P300-1 was the closest I could get to what I wanted power and size wise. I looked at a Kicker amp but it would be way too long and wouldn't leave me space for the cpapacitor. I didn't like the MTX TC amps cause you have no markings on the frequency ranges, gaines, or even bass boost..Just marks. I don't like not knowing where I have my adjustments. JL Audio amps didn't have the right power range I was looking for. I could have done 275 into 1 at 2ohms but after your power loss and all I would only be getting like 110watts per sub and I didn't want to have to max out the gain to get that power and cause clipping. The next amp up in their series was a 500 X 1 that I just got rid of last week but that would have been WAY too much power draw for my system as if I'm adding a 2nd amp I don't want to drain my alternator and all. So it's all coming together and I still have a lot of work to do but I should be done this week and atleast I got the power and ground done now and won't need to ever upgrade again as this is probably my last system I will do as I'm getting too old for all this
Well you sound like you're getting everything in order. The only thing you shouldn't be worrying about is using the 5v kenwood on an amp with a "4v" maximum input. That rating is only the average continuous rating and doesn't mean you will run it all of the time at that level. That just means you can get a clean unclipped signal from the amp with anything as low as the minimum input voltage and as high as 4v. You don't HAVE to run a full 5v into it, just because the kenwood is capable. That is what the sub control on the deck is for. The only reason it is capable of 5v is to make sure you have a clean signal that will exceed the input signal voltage requirements of the amp with no distortion. Its basically the same as using an amp that produces 300 watts rms clean power to run two subs that only require 250 watts clean power total. You might not need the extra 50 watts but that gives you "headroom" and ensures the subs are performing cleanly up to their maximum input rating.
Same reason I've been powering two subs that are rated up to 800watts rms total with an amp that is capable of giving 2000 watts rms clean power, its good to have headroom. I've had them for about two years and haven't damaged them. Now that I've sold them and plan on buying two 10 shallow subs for a stealth install, I'll still be going overkill by using a ppi 600 watt amp or the same earthquake 2kw, just to be sure the subs are playing to their maximum potential.
Same reason I've been powering two subs that are rated up to 800watts rms total with an amp that is capable of giving 2000 watts rms clean power, its good to have headroom. I've had them for about two years and haven't damaged them. Now that I've sold them and plan on buying two 10 shallow subs for a stealth install, I'll still be going overkill by using a ppi 600 watt amp or the same earthquake 2kw, just to be sure the subs are playing to their maximum potential.
Should sound better once you get it tuned in. A class D is more efficient however, it will take more power to run the subs with a class AB. It can be around a 1/3 more but depends on the amps in question.
I have an alpine class D that is 350w I am waiting to try if I can get around to rewiring my trunk yet again, but want to put different subs in first. It likely will not be large enough with the subs I have now, 420 can't even get them really excited. I could drop in a 900 I have here, but the back of the car shakes as it is and I can't even hear the music (high side).
Yeah the voltage on HU is debatable, kind of like wattage on many speakers and amps, even fuse sizing on amps. Some of them are pure marketing. I have used 2v HU and never had a problem but 4 would not hurt.
I have an alpine class D that is 350w I am waiting to try if I can get around to rewiring my trunk yet again, but want to put different subs in first. It likely will not be large enough with the subs I have now, 420 can't even get them really excited. I could drop in a 900 I have here, but the back of the car shakes as it is and I can't even hear the music (high side).
Yeah the voltage on HU is debatable, kind of like wattage on many speakers and amps, even fuse sizing on amps. Some of them are pure marketing. I have used 2v HU and never had a problem but 4 would not hurt.
Well, I was doing some thinking...Now that I have a 4 channel amp that will be putting out a rated output of 40w X 4 instead of 22 from the deck, I might have to upgrade my speaker wire. I was going to use the factory wires so I wouldn't have to go through and take the door panels off and all but I don't know if they are too thin. I have some 16 gauge left here at home (and about 3 bundles of wire that came with some of my past speakers - They look like smaller gauge than 16) that could probably handle the 2 rear speakers but I would have to buy some more for the fronts. Do I need to upgrade my wire for this? I think the factory wiring is like 22 or 24 and I can go to 16 which would be more than enough I think for it but if I have to then I will have to buy more speaker wire.
Maybe someone will post about the wire size. I use factory wires all the time for the high side, with no bass it does not carry as much current, and that is AC current not DC. I run up to 100wrms/ch and not bothered with changing it. If I run amps in trunk I do use at least 16 often 14ga up to HU to hook into factory wires. The rear speakers have a longer run of factory wire, but then I never play them that loud anyway. I've even changed them out on a car and could not tell the difference so I don't bother. The cars I have don't use tiny wire, not sure of size but I've bought speakers that came with much smaller. If you run subs then you need bigger wire, of course I think mine are wired with 14...each side so 210wrms for under 1.5' on each wire set then split to wire pair each side for the last <1'.
Yeah...I was just planning on running like 16 gauge and then bullet click them to their inputs on the wiring harness behind the hu and let it go from there. I don't think it would be a issue like that at all. I won't be running my highs full blast either...Just enough to have it cleaner and a little louder than the head unit's output.
And for my subs I have 12 gauge going I know I didn't need to go that low (Was going to go for 10 gauge) but I wanted to be sure and it cleaned it up some.
And for my subs I have 12 gauge going
I know I didn't need to go that low (Was going to go for 10 gauge) but I wanted to be sure and it cleaned it up some.to figure out wire size you use ohms law witch is watts divided by resistance then the square root of that so lets say your amp's max watts is 80 and your speakers are 4ohms and you have now this is high but just for examples 2homs of resistance in your wire so 80 / 6=13.33 and the square root of that = 3.65 amps of current from your amp so 16 ga will be fine as for the type of wire used now that is a different story factory wire is like house wire in quality read this There is only a difference of .1db between 18 gauge and 12 gauge. Usually, 18 gauge wire is sufficient, except for high power (subwoofer) applications. Different wires will have different line capacitances, which can cause the wire to act as a low pass filter. This is one of the selling points of high end cables.
You may be temped to use typical electrical wire instead of speaker wire to save money. The copper in electrical wire is of less quality than speaker wire, and will be prone to rust. Also, the insulation isn't of the same quality as speaker wire. These points are especially important when dealing with car audio. Still, it can be done. It would be best to solder terminals to the ends of the wire to prevent the rust problem. ok factory wire has a max of maby 15 strands and good wire has maby 150 strands of copper witch makes it more flexible and it also of higher quality in the copper . i like to use monster car audio wire available at wal mart i have the 16 GA run from my infinity 4ch amp witch is 111w rms a ch. that wire is also nice because it is a twisted pair to make it low noise
You may be temped to use typical electrical wire instead of speaker wire to save money. The copper in electrical wire is of less quality than speaker wire, and will be prone to rust. Also, the insulation isn't of the same quality as speaker wire. These points are especially important when dealing with car audio. Still, it can be done. It would be best to solder terminals to the ends of the wire to prevent the rust problem. ok factory wire has a max of maby 15 strands and good wire has maby 150 strands of copper witch makes it more flexible and it also of higher quality in the copper . i like to use monster car audio wire available at wal mart i have the 16 GA run from my infinity 4ch amp witch is 111w rms a ch. that wire is also nice because it is a twisted pair to make it low noise
I would like to add that sometimes the "higher" quality copper cables actually corrode quicker. Some are very pure and have no other metals to prevent corrosion like some alloy or tinned types do. I've noticed this with several customers' vehicles with expensive wire that has turned green in only a matter of months, as well as higher priced high strand cable I've purchased before. Of course if you live somewhere with low humidity, the wire will last longer. I prefer using tinned copper audio cable when possible. By the way Flyin11, did you actually measure the gauge of your stock wiring? Some auto manufacturers actually use decent quality wire that is resistant to corrosion from humid weather.
ppia600 said:
also i have seen a lot of corrosion on factory wire that is why i use the monster cable it is tinned but it is also good practice to solder your connections and use heat shrink and if you need to use crimp connections use E.J.C. (electrical joint compound) and if not able to get that bulb grease works well
ppia600 said:
Not yet...As far as I can tell when my dad was soldering the connections on my 6 1/2 speakers in the doors and I was doing the connections on the 6X9's in the rear...It looked like it was just the same size wires as on the wiring harness for the headunit. I was just figuring if the wires could handle the 50w X 4 that the headunit puts out they would handle the 40w that the amplifier puts out but will check on it.
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