Need some help with finding a really good headunit

[Flyin11]

Looking for some advice on a really good headunit to replace my Kenwood KDC-MP4028. I bought a Alpine CA-9883 but the problem is, I thought I could make the adjustments to make up for the 2V preouts on this unit (My Kenwood had 4V) and it doesn't hit as hard and isn't the same at all. I've tried everything. It seems a lot of the headunits now n days (I bought my Kenwood 2 years ago) like to have you only turn it up half way or at a low volume. I'm use to crankin up a stereo. My Kenwood went up to 35 on volume and I always had it at 28-29 and it kicked butt. The Alpine 9883 seemed to sound good around 21-23 but any higher, and you didn't hear any bass at all. You got a little teeny bit but if you turned it back down to that range, it hit hard. I'm not use to a unit that you have to have the volume level low. Luckily I bought it from Crutchfield and I contacted them last night and I'm thinking about exchanging it for a Alpine CDA-9885 but I'm worried that this won't solve my crankability issue. The bass more than likely would be back to normal but I would still have to keep it at 21-23. Then when I turn it down at a stop light, the highs are low but my bass is still pretty high at 1!! It still sounds like I'm thumping. I don't want that cause I don't want to draw attention to myself as I usually just crank it up when I'm on the interstate. Weird...So I need some advice on a few units I'm looking at and maybe if you have a suggestion. I want a unit that you can turn the volume up pretty high and still have everything sound clear and good.

Here's some of what I had in my Kenwood unit that I would like to have in a new unit (can do without a few and also, this unit had a mid bass setting that you could change - could have made a difference before in my sound):

CD receiver with built-in amplifier (22 watts RMS/50 peak x 4 channels)
fold-down, detachable face with 2-color display
plays CDs, CD-Rs, and CD-RWs (including discs loaded with MP3, WMA, or AAC files)
System Q Sound Control: 6 preset EQ curves with bass, treble, and midrange controls
System E's crossover system (high- and low-pass filters)
satellite radio controls (SIRIUS or XM subscription, tuner, and antenna required to receive the satellite radio signal) — service is available only in the lower 48 states, not available in Alaska, Hawaii, or U.S. territories
HD Radio-ready
CD changer controls
optional auxiliary input (adapter required)
4-volt front, rear, and subwoofer preamp outputs
CR-2 tuner
18 FM/6 AM presets
clock
wireless remote
CD frequency response: 10-20,000 Hz
CD signal-to-noise ratio: 105 dB
FM sensitivity: 9.3 dBf
warranty: 1 year

Looking at these units:

Alpine:

CDA-9885

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=500CDA9885&tp=5684

Pioneer:

DEH-4900iB

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=130DEHP490&tp=5684

DEH-P5900iB

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=130DEHP590&tp=5684

DEH-P6900UB (Has USB Input)

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=130DEHP690&tp=5684

JVC:

KD-G830

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=105KDG830&tp=5684

Any help is much appreciated I will be calling Crutchfield in the morning and telling them I'm exchanging my CDA-9883, just not sure right now which one to exchange it for.

 

[Safe_Cracker]

Just buy a linedriver to boost the input signal. Polo..

 

[jol50]

Do you have the loudness off? What size amps are you running on it? I have my alpine set to max at 18 because I get so tired of waiting an hour to turn it up or down. Ok only a couple seconds but it is way slower than a knob, and it works fine this way. I never run them over 60-75% usually (into amps), but this one I can turn amps down and crank it way up and it stays clean. I used to run it to 28-30, but it was so slow to change volume. It sounds mostly the same at any volume, I don't understand what yours is doing. Mine is older, but same as other alpines I have run. It is 2v and I have run maybe 10 different amps on it, but I have used a couple different crossovers. They were not line drivers but could have boosted the signal for all I know.

 

[Flyin11]

Loudness is defiantly off...I'm using a Alpine MRP-M450 on 2 JL Audio 12" subs. It sounded great on my old Kenwood unit with 4V preouts and exceptional on a Clarion DXZ675USB unit I tried but was not happy with it and it had a defect in the volume control. If I turn the amp gain down, it doesn't make it any clearer when you turn it up...and then the treble is already too high for me and if you go lower, it doesn't sound right. Treble was at 0-1, Bass 3, SW 9, Freq - Highs at 80 or 120, Lows 80...Not much else to really say. I really love my bass hitting hard and I feel I should not have to lower the gain or touch my amp that it should sound as clean and hard as my Kenwood or Clarion was. Oh well, I'm still searching through Crutchfield's lineup...

 

[jol50]

Well you can never run the HU into distortion, some do it, good ones usually don't. Turn your sub amp off or down all the way, turn the high amp all the way down too. Then turn the HU all the way up, go turn the high amp up just so it sounds normal and not loud in the car. Listen closely and if it is not clear (distortion/clipping) turn it down until it goes away, then down a few more. That point is as high as you should ever turn that HU up to. Then turn your amps back up so they max at that number.

HU, I like the pioneer 880 when I have enough play money around.

 

[ppia600]

I have a kenwood kdcx890, love it. Get another kenwood, I couldn't find anything else better new for the price.

 

[Flyin11]

Stuck with Alpine and got the CDA-9885. I didn't really like the look of the Pioneer with everything blue in color and even though it had a USB input on it, I didn't want to run into the same situation I had with the Clarion and the sound of ticking when it's running a USB device and my burned cd's are doing just fine. None of the Kenwood's appealed to me and there was one for a pretty good price but it looked just about exactly the same as my old one and it was sold out anyways. All I need is the 4V preouts to make the bass hit harder and better like it did before and it should now. Plus I hope the Bio Lite display will be more clearer to read than the 9883 but it's not a real issue and the remote is a definate plus with the 9885. I will try some adjustments on the amp if needed but I really don't think that will be necessary with the 4V preouts now. I should be good to go. Crutchefield is so awesome...They emailed me a prepaid UPS label and I just tape it on the box and send back. They are only a day away with shipping so they should receive it tomorrow and then they will ship the other unit out to me that day so I should have my new unit by Wednesday. Just have to deal with no radio for about a day

 

[jpruden]

Please let us know how it goes... I'm considering making the jump from Sony to Alpine, but I'm really nervous about SQ.

I'm still using head units from the 1990s so I can use my external digital processor, but if the Alpine works well, I can move forward with a new setup and sell off all of my Sony gear... and AudioControl and ...

Ugh.

 

[Flyin11]

Hey jol50...I saw another post you had that you also had some 12" speakers. I have 2 12's as well and was wondering, since you have a Alpine as well, what might be some good settings for the headunit to get it to sound really good? I believe I'm almost there with the CDA-9885 but when I think it sounds awesome, some songs that sounded great on the Kenwood, aren't as good on the Alpine but then I go to more songs that have a higher bit rate when burned and it kicks butt. I'm still tweaking some settings and it might take a little time but I think I'm getting there. It's a different headunit than a Kenwood and the settings I use to have with my older unit are not going to be the same on this one. So I have to have a little fun with it. Here are my settings right now...You can PM or email (not sure which on this board as I don't see a PM box or anything anywhere) me if you want to go over some things. I just want to get it sounding like it did with my Kenwood. Otherwise, I'd hate to do it, I might exchange the unit for another Kenwood again. I really like this unit and all but I haven't tested out my latest turn on the gain so we'll see.


SW Vol: 10
Sub type setting: 1
Bass: 3
Bass Bandwidth: Q1
Treble: -1
Treble Center Freq: 12.5
HPF: 120 or 160 (If on through it distorts my door speakers when volume is cranked up. Didn't do this on my Kenwood but oh well)
LPF: 80 (but 60 sounds a little harder kick...over 80 a bit and the sound is a bit muddy)
Balance: 0
Fader: 0
Loud: Off
Volume: Usually between 21-24 right now

Aslo, anyone know good settings for frequencies for Low Pass for Rock? I was told to keep it 80hz but any lower frequency and a lot of the bass guitar is cut out. Also, if I have it a little higher than 80, like at 100 on the amp, it kicks and sounds a bit better.

Also, wondering about frequencies for highs?

 

[jpruden]

Hi Flyin... you mentioned bit rate... are you playing MP3 files from a CD or burned audio CDs?

I've noticed a HUGE difference in SQ between low and high bitrate files that have been burned to an audio CD. Mostly in the treble, but also in how the bass *sounds*... it sounds really blatty on the lower bitrate files.

With the cabin gain we get in our cars, you have to watch for *too much* bass. Right now, I'm crossing over at 78 Hz (Sony has odd settings... ) and I'm getting about the right amount on most rock tunes, but WAY too much on hip hop. When I change the setting to 62 Hz, it really thins out on rock recordings, but the hip hop keeps on booming.

You're also underlapping your crossover settings... that is, you're setting the high and low settings to different values. This may be good due to its counter-effect on the whole cabin gain thing, but you can also get a suck out on the frequency response if they're too far apart. My settings above are both with the front stage set to a 78 Hz xover frequency. When I underlap, it sounds very tight... and when I don't, it sounds a bit fat. You're running two 12" subs, though. Those drivers will have WAY more output than your front stage can even dream of staying up with, unless you're running 8" drivers for your midbass or a pair of smaller drivers. I think I'd try setting the front stage to 100 Hz, the subs to about 60 or 80 Hz and see how that goes...

You might also want to check the xover settings on your amp... if you're double filtering, it could do some really odd stuff. I've got 36 dB/octave filters in my processor and 24 dB/octave on my amps... when they're both turned on, it sounds *really* bad. Also, where is "10" on the SW Vol? Is that all the way up? You may also want to turn down the SW Vol and turn up the gain on your bass amp.

Just my 2 cents.... YMMV.

 

[jol50]

Wrote a book here, but maybe it will help someone. Can't really get down to specific settings because every car/sub box/mid setup/crossover is different anyway.

I have an older 7837 that does not even have any crossover stuff in it but seems clean on CD, the tuner is a little weak on distance. I use an alpine G190 processor now that works nice so far, it also has a parametric for bass and some high side eq in addition to high and low crossovers and sub level. It only lacks high side level.

I can tell you what part of your problem might be....what I do is this: I turn my subs right off, then try to get it to sound good minus the thump of course. This will show you right away you might be weak on mid bass. Just tune it in to sound good as you can down to say 50-80Hz or low as you can run highs. Then, turn the subs back on and blend them in. If you are still weak in mid bass you can play with the low crossover point, but a parametric really helps you to run the subs up under the highs. You need to let the subs go up to maybe 100Hz, but at a lower level you don't notice that much and this will be harder to do if your box is tight. You can take away the high bass or add to the low to get there with the subs using a parametric, and less so with a normal crossover unless you can change the slope. The right way is to get more midbass from your highs mind you (more power/deadening/midwoofer/etc), but this will bandaid it for better SQ for now. You will have it tuned right when you don't really hear mid bass from the subs, but subs are punchy and make the low bass at same time. The parametric made this much easier for me, it took a lot of fiddling to get it right. Listen to a few CDs you really know and have heard a million times. Once set, then you can just turn the bass amp or HU bass up/down to match the music or your mood for bass level. This is why I want to put 8s in my doors, but that really causes me a problem with the rest of my highs I have not fully figured out yet.

I used to run 20-24 max volume and it worked fine, now I run 18 max because the alpine (buttons) volume is so slow to react and it works much faster this way. It makes lot of change from 2-4 but rarely listen to it that quiet. I hope this helps, far as crossover it depends on your box setup, the filter itself, even the car. I have my 12s at about 40 now, but can fudge that around with the parametric that changes the curve. For example now I have the LP at 35-40, the parametric at 100 boosted up about half way. This actually gets a little out of my subs at around 60-70 (but they have a lot under 50 because of the LP setting), plus it boosts the high side mids at 85-150. HP is about 80 according to the knobs that may or many not be right. The subs will shake the car at 30Hz this way, plus will hit at 80+ in the chest (under the mids) and are not directional unless you look in back and listen for them.

In the old days (lol) if you had good 6x9 they would make plenty of mid bass, this is not the case for many of today's smaller mids and gives you a big hole there. Subs are really not meant to run over about 50Hz on a crossover. To run them up higher under a weak high side takes finesse. If you turn off your subs and your system sounds like a tin can and worse in all bass than a good non-sub stock system....then you know you have this problem bad. When I listen and buy high side speakers I always get the ones with the most bass (it is easy to get rid of but hard to gain). I'm going to take one last try at my 5x7 and deaden the doors to see if it helps enough.

One last point is your amp can change this also. Take your high amp and swap it out for a different brand even different size without changing a thing. It may not, but odds are it will sound different. This may happen more with older amps.

 

[jpruden]

OK, still one other note...

I just noticed that you're running a pair of JL Audio subs on your Alpine amp... which is rated at 200 x 1 into 4 ohms and 400 x1 @ 2 ohms.

I'm running one JL Audio 12W3v3 on a JL Audio 500/1 amp. I'm wondering if you might also be running out of juice for your subs... hmmmm....

 

[Flyin11]

My subs are 4ohm but wired in parallel giving me a 2ohm load - 400 x 1 I use to have a PPI amp only doing 180 into 2 Rockford P1 12's and that was really good...So I'm getting about double power out of this...

Little update on the settings...It seems the little gain adjustment on the amp this morning after I got into the parking lot at work made a world of difference. It seems to be hitting as hard as it was with my old Kenwood now but I think I still need to tweak the bass setup on it as I believe I have the gain right now. Adjustment some setting on the HU but not much and the SW volume can go up to 15 so I'm still doing great at 9 (Different HU, different adjustment on that as my Kenwood was at 3 out of 15 but then again I was cranking the volume at 28-29 out of 35)...

SW Vol: 9
Bass: 4
Treble: 0 (Was originally 0, screwed up in my post)
Treble Center Freq: 15.0 (Was originall 15.0, screwed up in post)

I have to go to the doctor this afternoon to get some stitches out of my elbow so I can see how much better it sounds and will let you know how that works Gonna read over yalls suggestions as well

Hi Flyin... you mentioned bit rate... are you playing MP3 files from a CD or burned audio CDs?

I've noticed a HUGE difference in SQ between low and high bitrate files that have been burned to an audio CD. Mostly in the treble, but also in how the bass *sounds*... it sounds really blatty on the lower bitrate files.

Yep, a lot of mp3's...I do that with all my CD's now...I burn them to my hard drive and then create a disc with the songs on it. That way if something happens to the CD's, I have my originals at home to make another back up of I noticed a lot in the way the different rates give you different sound. Why I like 320kbps compared to 192 It's all working out though...

Also, where is "10" on the SW Vol? Is that all the way up? You may also want to turn down the SW Vol and turn up the gain on your bass amp.

Just my 2 cents.... YMMV.

It goes up to 15 but I turned it down 1 and the bass up 1. Might see what I can do with the bass EQ on the amp. Turn it up a little more to compensate but it sounds pretty dern good right now.

 

[jol50]

If you have a bass eq on the amp you might be able to turn it up a little and gain down a little, problem is if its a fixed at 45 like most it will not help 30Hz. But it will make it roll off more above 50 that way so you can run the crossover higher without overloading the midbass but just helping it. If its adjustable set it to 40 or lower and try above.

 

[Flyin11]

Hmmm..Don't know...The Bass EQ just lists in db...From 0db to 12db. Here's a picture...Also I only use 1 amp and that's for my low's and then use the highs of the headunit for my 4 speakers. I can't drain the juice anymore by adding another amp...

 

[jol50]

I would most certainly get a high side amp, they don't take near the power draw as your subs anyway. HU power sucks, even a quality 30w/ch amp would help you a lot....its no wonder you have no bass in your highs. There are some t220 alpines on ebay going cheap if you run only fronts or can parallel the rears. I would highly recommend it, even a $30 TYD quality used amp will help you out a ton.

 

[jpruden]

Now this is making more sense... running off of the deck power vs. a 400 watt amp is no fair.

I'm with jol50 on this one... a little amp up front will make a HUGE difference. That certainly explains why you were getting problems even with the xover at 160.

The funny thing is that in my system, the high end amp (JL Audio 300/2) is the one that uses the most current. The low end amp (JL Audio 500/1) is a class D amp that is extremely efficient. I've gotten home from some ReallyLoud™ runs and have found that my high end amp is pretty warm, while my bass amp is cool as a cucumber. I am, however, running my low end at a 4 ohm load, so it's really not working very hard at all.

 

[Flyin11]

Nah...I'm good to go now....I always like a little more bump than I do highs. I don't need to mellow the sound out, I just needed to get it hitting hard and bumpin. I just spent a little over $660.00 getting a new amp, subs, sub box, and head unit. I'm not going to spend anymore money. This sounds great like this and it's how I wanted it setup. I adjusted the gain on the amp for the output of the head unit. The gain on the amp is 1 notch away from max. So I'm not sure it's doing the 400w but it's doing enough for the 2 subs. If anything, I might consider getting 1 15" or downgrading to 3 10" subs next year but right now I'm loving the sound. I spent a lot of money to get my JL's which I always wanted and now everything I have is brand name and quality. Also, my lights do dim a little if the bass is hard enough and adding another amp will make them dim more. Thanks for the advice but I think I'm good to go now with my setup

 

[jol50]

To make it work, you just need a good amp for highs. To get good SQ you need a big amp for highs. Yeah the class Ds are nice, I have one to try though its only 350wrms and smaller than the 420 d in the 5ch I have in now...I think the 5ch sub part is d.

 

[Flyin11]

Was windering if I might need to upgrade my 6 1/2's in the doors or maybe there's something wrong with the way they are installed in my 2003 Honda Civic Coupe that's making them distort and sound like they are baffling when the bass is up on the headunit? Not sure what model they are but they are Kenwoods and I never had any issues with them before. I tried looking around for some Alpines cause I might want those but I can't find any 6 1/2's that would fit my doors. I find that hard to believe...Anybody know of any Alpine 6 1/2's that would fit my car? Crutchfield has some 5 1/4's but that's it...The 6 1/2 Alpines they had said it wouldn't fit my car . I would have to go with another brand and might be eyeing some Kicker 6 1/2 DS600's. Just wondering...I know there is a small hole to begin with in the doors on Hondas so maybe I need to saw out the hole a little more? My dad installed those while I did the 6X9's in the rear and it looked to not fit completely flush but there was plenty of clearance around the magnet when I saw it and he said that after the screws were tightened it wouldn't go anywhere.