Not all cone materials are created equal and they all have different sound qualities. Ideal cone materials are strong but low in density. Paper sounds pretty good but isn't durable for long term use (or abuse). Plastic (polypropylene) is more durable but imo doesn't sound as good. My preferences are for Al and composite cone materials which are usually pretty expensive.
If you cross the sub over at the correct frequency, the cone material will not cause issues. The only way it will matter is if you play frequencies high enough to cause an undesired resonance, and that would most likely be somewhere in the mid range. Subs are designed to play low frequencies, not mid. That is why they are called "subs". I don't have many requirements for cone material other than it be durable and not succeptible to water absorption or warping. I usually stay away from the paper cones even though they are usually treated to make them water resistant. Poly and metal types are good because they can be very thin and light and still very stiff, to keep the woofer cone from flexing.
Cheap poly subs do have noise in them but most are heavy enough not to. What I find is running subs IB you will hear more artifacts in the sound. It seems to dampen the cone more in a box. Either way you usually can't hear it unless the sub is visible to you and aimed at you. A sub with fair or better quality today should not make any noise at sub frequencies...but IMO there are differences in subs and it may or may not be the cone material. I like paper for quality, but it is less of an issue with better drivers. Also the slope of your crossover and its setting can affect it....and I think that is why you tend to hear it more if you are in front of the sub, and will not if sub is in trunk for example. I guarantee if you buy a $15 pyramid original poly 10" sub and run it IB in a rear deck, you will hear cone noise. With the same model paper it will be less or not heard, I have done it. I have some Infinity 12s now IB and I don't hear any noise at all in them, but there is a bump higher up...however it may not be the cones or even subs doing it, and its not that bad but I don't run them that high anyway. BTW the same 10" poly pyramids were fine in a ported box in a hatchback. For SQ daily driver they worked pretty well on 150rms. They didn't last that long though, they wear out and foam goes bad.
If it sounds different, the T&S specs should be different. I ran into this a lot running IB systems, in particular with a mid smaller than a 6x9. Most smaller mids can't get the mid bass, so you let the subs come up some to fill in (for SQ). If you have say 10s, they peak around 100Hz and with the crossover at say 50-80Hz they will play higher because of the peak. If you get it right they can fill up into mid bass without you noticing them much, or being directional, and still have more punch under the crossover point. But if they have an issue in the mid bass you will hear it, so back in the early 90s before polys were that good I always used paper. In a smaller box you often have a huge peak up high, so you can't let them come up at all. I would guess that is why you don't see any older home speakers made out of poly, just paper. Now polys are better plus they often use more complicated processing in integrated systems using cheaper poly such as amplified speakers. They will use a plate amp that does not have a flat response.
Same specs have little to do with what a sub will sound like. Ignoring for now that a sub ias a system that is way more than just the cone material. Cones tend to have certain sonic charateristics, inherent noise & colourations.
The comment on if the cones are different, but the specs are the same... this is spurious, because it is not likely to happen. If the cone is optimum design for one material, getting the mass, resonances, stiffness with another material is not likely going to leave you with a cone that is optimal for that other material.
dave
The comment on if the cones are different, but the specs are the same... this is spurious, because it is not likely to happen. If the cone is optimum design for one material, getting the mass, resonances, stiffness with another material is not likely going to leave you with a cone that is optimal for that other material.
dave
I think I must be typing in some alien language (steps away to get a better look at the screen) ... no wait, its perfectly legible. 
Of course I'm explaining in terms of using the sub for its intended purpose, sub bass. For the people using theirs for a lower mid driver the differences in cone material will be more apparent. I generally tend to think of subwoofers mainly as air pressure pumps. There should be no frequencies that aren't pure air pressure waves leaving the trunk from your subs. If there are, you need better mid bass drivers in the front. I like my soundstage to be in the front 99.99999% of the time. The rest of the time I'm probably asleep.
Of course I'm explaining in terms of using the sub for its intended purpose, sub bass. For the people using theirs for a lower mid driver the differences in cone material will be more apparent. I generally tend to think of subwoofers mainly as air pressure pumps. There should be no frequencies that aren't pure air pressure waves leaving the trunk from your subs. If there are, you need better mid bass drivers in the front. I like my soundstage to be in the front 99.99999% of the time. The rest of the time I'm probably asleep.jol50 said:
yah but heavy cones are not great for any speaker. the efficiency on it was probably like 80db or something. i think those type of subs are more for looks than anything to please the one note bass line spl type crowd that think you need 1,000 watts for anything to "bump, hit, knock, slam" hard. i could go on but you get my point.
what happened to the good ol' days of sweet sounding subs that only needed 100 clean watts to play as loud as you would ever need without distortion? i like some of the old paper cone subs like older rockfords, soundstreams, x-tants and so on for sound quality plus solid bass impact. some poly cone subs sound fine too like older kicker comps and the round solobarics. now those were fine subwoofers! it all depends on the quality of build and material quality. flashing lights and colorfull graphics don't add to sound quality contrary to popular belief.
shagone said:
what happened to the good ol' days of sweet sounding subs that only needed 100 clean watts to play as loud as you would ever need without distortion? i like some of the old paper cone subs like older rockfords, soundstreams, x-tants and so on for sound quality plus solid bass impact. some poly cone subs sound fine too like older kicker comps and the round solobarics. now those were fine subwoofers! it all depends on the quality of build and material quality. flashing lights and colorfull graphics don't add to sound quality contrary to popular belief.
Hi,
Agreed, a very good question and well stated.
Guess I'm getting old.....
I remember playing a rear window loose with "only" about 125W at diposal.LOL, I must be getting old too. I had 4 of the original pyramid paper 10s I got for $15ea back then, and they just pounded IB. I ran various 300w amps on them and finally tried this blaupunkt nobody liked and it slammed! That rig hit xmax all the time and sounded good doing it. The amp was only 120w!(of course more at 2ohms) For some reason it could run louder without bottoming the subs like the other amps did, it had more control or maybe a subsonic but doubt it. Could hear that thing a mile down the road. I went through a lot of those subs, after two years the foam would burn from the sun or just plain come apart from abuse. It didn't take much to get them going, they must have been pretty efficient and to tell you the truth I am thinking about trying them again. Another favorite was the old pyles, the ones with the magnet near as big as the cutout and a heavy paper cone. They were unblowable back then.
A heavy cone can be an asset....for running IB like we used to a lot back with rwd cars with trunks. That lowers the Fs since you don't have a box.
A heavy cone can be an asset....for running IB like we used to a lot back with rwd cars with trunks. That lowers the Fs since you don't have a box.
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